Hello Thomas. You make your point very very well and by the way I think you are doing a great job integrating the audio indicators such as the crumbling ledge sounds into the ambiance of Mota. This is ideally the kind of thing you want a sound that tells the player something if they need it but doesn't get in the way for advanced players.
How interesting you know someone who is blind and hearing impaired, my wife is legally blind and also deaf in her left ear so I know precisely what you are talking about when you say that playing these games is a challenge for your friend because it is for her as well. She has found that if she turns her head a certain way she can kind of judge where things are in the stereo field, for instance she was able to get pretty far in grizzly gulch that way. However when playing something like Troopanum II she definitely has to have the targetting sound. As you say, we advanced gamers need to give both developers and new gamers a break, this is not unique to the blind gaming community, we're just really seeing it here a lot more and people are maybe taking it a bit more personally because we are such a small group. Anyhow, thanks for the reply and the interesting thoughts. Game on. Tom -----Original Message----- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 3:36 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Dumbing down games (was RE: anyone got anny suggestions for the next versionofbattlezone?) Hi Tom, Interesting points you raised. As a gamer and software developer I have to say I see both sides of the argument too. As you pointed out just because someone like you or I is able to do without feature x doesn't necessarily mean everybody can do without it. For example, let's take targeting in Shades of Doom. Most of the time I don't need the night scope beeping away in my ear to line up and shoot a target. In fact, I personally find it a bit distracting so usually turn it off. However, that doesn't mean that such a feature should not exist, because I happen to know people who are physically unable to play without it. I happen to have a very long time friend who is totally blind from birth, but she also has problems whith her hearing as well. She has a difficult time playing anything as complex as Shades of Doom because she can't hear things very well on her left side. As a result since targeting requires centering a monster in her headphones she's not able to do that because she can't hear very well out of her left ear. She can, however, target using the night scope because it will increase in pitch as she lines the target up. So an accessibility feature like that is not just for someone who is blind, but may have some hearing impairment too. Same goes for this argument over weather or not there needs to be a step sound for traps. Now, I've tried my best to work it into the background ambience so it isn't exactly intrusive and sounds like it truly belongs there. Again, personally, I probably don't need it. I can usually judge by sound alone when or when not to jump. However, coming back to my friend if she is walking left in MOTA she doesn't have much functional hearing out of her left ear so judging when or when not to jump a fire pit, lava pit, chasm, by sound alone is just not possible for her. However, since adding the crumbling ledges she knows she should try and jump because it plays out of both speakers, and is an absolute indicator of a trap. So once again this feature just doesn't help a blind player, but someone who may have other disabilities such as being hard of hearing as well. The point I'm getting at is when it comes to accessibility I don't think there is any single one-size fits all solution. There are your advanced gamers who don't need targeting sounds, step sounds for drop offs, or any number of things. For others they simply are unable to play the game without it. Either because they don't have the experience you have, or they are physically unable to do that for one reason or another. We really should not come down too harshly on the developers who are trying to provide accessibility in the only way they know how. I myself am having a serious challenge trying to make Mysteries of the Ancients both accessible, but not dumb it down in the process. It is not an easy balance to make given the fact that that no two gamers are alike. Cheers! On 4/8/11, Tom Randall <kf6...@comcast.net> wrote: > Hi all. > > I've been following this very stimulating discussion. I'm also a bit > of a mainstream gamer as most of you know, I started out on the old > Atari games back when home computers were first coming out and audio > games had not even been thought of yet. For that reason I too am used > to doing without audio cues to a large extent and I mainly agree with > the idea that figuring a game out is more than half the fun. Having > said that though, those of us who are into these kinds of games and > who enjoy figuring things out do need to remember that not everyone is > at this level and we don't want to discourage new people from getting > into gaming, the gods know there are few enough of us as it is whether > you are talking about mainstream or audio games. Just as a for > instance. I tried to get into audio quake a few years back, I even > went so far as to get hold of an old copy of the full game. I tried > learning how to make it work but I found it pretty impossible. The > sound cues just did not make any sense at all and I eventually got > frustrated and gave up. So I can see where some of these new gamers > are maybe coming from. From a programming standpoint I would not think > it should be too hard to satisfy both sides here, if a cue is subtle > such as a slightly different sounding footstep such as you encounter > in shades of doom when you are close to a wall this should not be > intolerable to the advanced gamer who doesn't want them. For things > like targetting sounds I think these should be optional so the > beginner can use them but the advanced player can dispense with them > if he wishes. > > Well that's my two cents' worth on this for now. > > Game on. > > Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
