Dear Sumeet, Going through your mail I don't what did I feel more - frustration or anger and a little bit of surprise. If you think destroying someone's life, living a lie, denying what you are even to yourself is a fight, then I am glad I am not a fighter.
You said - "You dont want to marry because you think you cant make it with females." - I don't want to marry because I have found my life partner, who happens to be a man and loves me more than I could ever imagine. As far as making it with a woman is concerned, I think that is least of my concerns when I say I will not marry a woman. i don't want to deny myself true love and I will never deprive someone from it as well, cause no matter what I will never be able to make a woman as happy as a straight man would. You said - "You want to give up because you dont want to fight. Have you heard of a woman who gaveup in the mid way of giving birth to a child because of the labor pain she felt. Certainly not. So thats courage, which you lack." - My dear friend, it is most difficult to fight your loved ones & to fight life long aspirations and dreams of your parents. I am not giving up. i am going to fight for my right to love. it takes as much courage to face your parents and tell them that you are gay as in martyring yourself silently and marrying a girl. the difference is my courage will give me the freedom i deserve and in the end our lives (mine and my parents') will be much better cause they will see that I am happy; your courage on the other hand will give you a dissatisfied and unloved wife, a practically screwed up life and parents who'd be wondering about their happily married son who doesn't look all that happy. You said " Its not about making people understand what you are, but making yourself realise what you can be. " - Why in the god's name I'd try to be something I am not? What's wrong with making people understand what I am? I hope you read what you wrote and try to find some sense in it. You said "I believe in putting my best efforts to make a relation grow and then its growth is my achievement." - I don't know what kind of relationship you are talking about - one which is based on lies? In the end u said i am frog in the well and i do not know anything about the ocean. may be, But I know that I am happy. can you say that about yourself? I guess not. Think about it. Regards, --- In gay_bombay@yahoogroups.com, Sumeet Mehra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Utkarsh! > > Well said. But hey buddy, can you tell me definition of strength and courage. You dont want to marry because you think you cant make it with females. > > In life many people make small and big achievements. Can you tell me what are achievements? To achieve something uncommon or unusual. You want to give up because you dont want to fight. Have you heard of a woman who gaveup in the mid way of giving birth to a child because of the labor pain she felt. Certainly not. So thats courage, which you lack. I am forced to use this statement. A woman when she concieves for first time has only heard of pain but never felt it. If even women think like you then you would not be on this earth. There are many other examples like this. > Just look around. But you dont want to fight. You want to talk to your parents, but have you ever spoken with yourself? You have belief on them but you lack same belief in yourself. Its not about making people understand what you are, but making yourself realise what you can be. > Those who dont have courage can never win a war. And life is like a war at ever step. Even Arjun thought he could not fight but he did because Krishna was with him. Unless you dont, how will you know that God is with you. We face in life many times such challenges that we never thought of. We dont think that time, what if we loose? We try all our best. Thats what we are suppose to do. I believe in putting my best efforts to make a relation grow and then its growth is my achievement. But a frog of well can never know about ocean. Come out of the well, to know. Life is difficult but not that one cant beat it. You surely lack fighting spirit. > > from > Sumeet. > > > utkarsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just want to add something to this discussion - > > Do not make assumptions on behalf of your parents. The key to any > healthy relationship is communication and this holds true for every > kind of relationship. Our parents assume that we will be happy married > to a nice girl and they act on this assumption. We on the other hand > assume that if we ever told our parents about our sexual orientation, > they will die of grief and their lives will be destroyed. Now if only > we work up enough ourage and talk to them about our problem and why we > can not marry, things might work out in a different manner. > > We have to let them know what will make us happy and then leave the > decision of whether marriage to a girl do the same on them. Our > parents have not brought us up so that we keep mum when it's most > important to speak up and destroy so many lives. Believe me no matter > how conservative, they will always love you. You have to let them know > about the true you. > > Once again, marrying is not a solution, but the beginning of a very > big lifelong problem. No matter what Sumeet and the likes of him say, > I'd say stay away from marriage. it is not easy; I am still > contemplating how to come out to my parents; but I am sure about one > thing, that I will not marry. This life is too precious to while away > regretting and living with a guilty conscience. > > Courage to strengthen! > > > > --- In gay_bombay@yahoogroups.com, Sonub Jalan <likluv@> wrote: > sweetheart...i love my parents. they are the most important people in my life and their happiness means the whole world to me. but that does not give me the right to trap a girl into a "marriage" i am completetly disinterested in. it would mean either living my whole life against my instints devoid of passion and true love or cheating on her. i would rather go through this period of pain for my parents and me, be there for them, wait for them to come to terms with my true nature and take it from there on. > > the two options you have concluded your mail with arent really the only two options available to gay men. your outlook only belies your lack of courage to face the challenges you are up against. and by no means am i saying the challenges you and i have to face as gay men are trivial. but they are our challenges that we have to face...call it karma...call it a blessing...call it a curse. those of us who come out of it with are wits about us will live. the other wimps will be advising hapless youngsters on how to get a hard on with women so that they may fulfill their parents desperate superficial dreams...against their true nature and leading everyone involved into perpetual despair. > > coolclump <coolclump@> wrote: hi there, i've always been a silent spectator of this grp. after reading ur reaction for gays marrying straight women, i've a humble comment/doubt to put forth: won't it be selfish of us(gays) if we deny getting married? cuz, the majority of the parents of gays are conservative and it's a matter of pride for them to get their sons/daughters married. > > and we're here on the earth only because of them. it's our parents who've given us an identity. aren't we obliged to go by their words as in case of marriage? > > can't we make this sacrifice, to make our parents happy? and i'm sure gays will definitely have children after marriage. that'll also make our parents happy grandparents na..? > > well, this is not my principle or opinion. it's just a small doubt that has kept me in conflict for quite a long time. and i just wanna know how other gays 'll respond to this.. > > i understand ur point also but would u or anyone substantiate ur point of view? > > how'll u tackle a question as this? would u prefer saying-'yes, i'm selfish' or 'no, i'll better make my conservative parents happy...' > > cheers.. v > > --- In gay_bombay@yahoogroups.com, Sonub Jalan <likluv@> wrote: > > rent you contradicting yourself? "Sex is in the mind" and "still at heart we are gay"...who are you fooling? If you have indeed attained intimacy with your wife (proving that it is possible) then why the need to be here? > > I dont know under what circumstances you have had to marry and I will not like to sit in judgement of your actions. But this is definitely not the advise you can give to people who are under pressure to get married to a woman. What such people (people like me) need to know is that you will then be using a woman's life to experiment. You are living in denial about what you and she needs and someday you will not be able to live the pretence any longer. > > For those of you who are married...you can spend the rest of your life "adjusting" and "rubbing your wife's cheeks" or acknowledge the clossal mistake you have made and go your separate ways. Acknowledge that you are "not a perfect husband like heteros" and a hetro is what any straight woman deserves, while you are respnsible for denying her that. > > And then maybe some of you married guys have been lucky in that your wife has waited long enough for you to "get physical as if it means nothing to you as would between two friends". I know of women who kicked the living daylights out of their husbands for not being good enough. Lots of rounds to hospitals to cure their impotency. So dont you dare make your plight a general rule. > > Get real guys. While the honourable GB list jury is still out on whether true love is possible in the gay world, I believe it is better to be alone than to live a lie. > > I have fought really hard not to marry, being the only son in a very conservative family. It has affected my parents health and been the cause of a lot of tension in my family. But I would rather live with this than a wife with whom I need to develop intimacy and "Achieving sex with one women" against my instincts. > > abbey fifty <abbeyphilip@> wrote: Guys, I'd like to make two points: > > 1. I share Sumeet Mehra's experiences and having done the deed, ( marrying )the best option is to try hard to adjust. And the best policy is NOT to try getting hard - just befriend your wife, get intimate in all other ways, and then very slowly, get physical as if it means nothing to you as would between two friends -like putting hand over shoulder, a kiss on the cheek and just holding hands. The important thing is to get so used to these things that you are not conscious. After a few months, you will be mentally relaxed enough for stirrings of physical feelings to emerge. Remember sex is in the mind. So relax and let time go. I went through this phase and though not a perfect husband like heteros, we do get along. > > 2. We are on the list because, still, at heart we are gay in that we are attracted physically by men. Achieving sex with one women means nothing much except that u get to know her so well, that one learns to get along, if you know what I mean. It happens. But the feelings stop with that one women. Emotionally, we are very much on g-side. I am sure other married men will understand this. But I know others will not, and I have no wish to cross swords with them. > > My purpose of writing this is to give emotional support to "arsg" , Summet and others like them ( and me)because I am sure there will be acidic comments to the contrary. Warm regards, A > > --- Sonub Jalan <likluv@> wrote: > > If you have accomplished what you have advised, what are you doing on this list? > > Sumeet Mehra <sumeet_lovs_u@> wrote: Hi asrg! > > I am giving you just my point of view. > > I do understand in what difficult situation you are. > > Maybe you might have never thought that you would land up in such a situation. See its difficult but not impossible. You can lead a very good sex life with your wife. I am sure you have some thoughts that is not letting you have feelings for your wife. But as you have told you can not disclose your sex identity to you family and please never do that. You may land up in very complicated state of life. > > See nothing in this world is impossible. You need to remove all passimist feelings from your mind. You can surely have sex with your wife. Treat her as your soul mate not wife. Understand her. She is the one who has hold your hand and entered in your family. So she deserves your unconditional love. Love her. She is the one who has taken your parents as her own. Respect her. Try giving her love. See till you do not try nothing will happen. Don't forget that if one desires one can do any thing and make impossible also possible. > > Make Love. You need not do sex, till you are not prepared. But you can surely make her feel loved. Slowly and gradually as you proceed start getting involved in her. More you get involved more you will make her satisfy. Just forget the world. Even Foget yourself, your individuality. Get lost in her. Then you will see how things change. Do not resist any feelings. Let it come let it pass by. Do not be concerned even if you do not get hard. Just go on and on. Do not think of jumping for intercourse. Make her feel that she is the most loved person in your life. You will then realise and will then understand what I have said is truth- Nothing is impossible. You will get hard...harder...hardest and she will then be the most happiest woman marrying to you. > > Believe me, let any one say any thing. Let the whole world say that gay can not have sex with females. But I am sharing with you my very personal experience. I know reading this some guys may object and will say that I am Bi. But guys I was not Bi before having sex with my wife. > > So if you try the same way as I did. You will surely succeed. Even Impossible says that I am Possible. So get set go. Enjoy!!! > > Regards and All The Best, Sumeet > > asrg_3 <ilhnm@> wrote: I am a gay living in Amritsar, Punjab. I have no feeling for girls but I have been married to a girl under my family prssure. I cann't come out. I am a reputed person and afraid of my family and society. I am not able to do anything with my wife even after five months of my marriage. Please tell me what should I do? 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