Thank you *so* much. What’s the timeframe for disengagement as you would perceive it? Will watch video.
I’ve emailed art+feminism. Are there any conversations about the role algorithmic governance plays in the current consensus model happening now? Gratitude HTTPS://viki.wiki On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 10:41 PM J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: > Have you talked to art+feminism? They have been doing this for many years > https://artandfeminism.org/ > > Wikidata tends to be more fact based with linked open data. > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3880310 > > Yes, as you see some editors seek to “win” edit wars by declaring coi > rather than engaging in good faith collaboration. > I would disengage for a time and return when edit warriors have moved on. > Here is some background > https://www.beutlerink.com/interviews/wikiconference-2024-coi-editing > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 8:36 PM V C <[email protected]> wrote: > >> This is the only real advice I’ve been given. I’ve been transparent about >> COI but not sure if even that applies bc I didn’t have prior relationship >> to BLP before I was introduced to her in order to help clean up pages on >> her, and improve pages that cite her scholarship. Other editors are even >> farther removed! >> >> Any advice/links for how wiki data could help us catalogue articles >> relevant to The Readymades of Marcel Duchamp would be deeply appreciated. >> There are a lot of inconsistencies in image permissions. unclear how this >> effort could be promotional if the citations for Rhonda Roland shearers >> work are already present on the encyclopedia and have been for over a >> decade. >> >> A call for editors was placed on mailing list because the artworks are >> part of an art and law course dealing with CCBYSA - would it be too late to >> host formal edit a thon on this? SPA accts would not need to exist were it >> not for hounding/3RR and userspace harassments. >> >> We’ve asked for help many times to improve the pages, include recent >> scholarship and describe artworks with accuracy (size, version history, >> fabricators, references to historical prototypes, etc) and sourced a lot of >> material previously unsourced. refusal to let newcomers incorporate these >> facts have led us to question Wikipedia’s neutrality, because we’re not >> replacing or removing data at all and don’t have any intention to. >> >> And thank you for being kind! >> >> >> On Friday, October 17, 2025, J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> We need to be ambassadors to outsiders to produce the sum of all >>> knowledge. Crying coi and sock is dysfunctional. Wikipedians in residence >>> have been accused of coi before, how is that working out? >>> A pivot to wikidata as prework can be productive. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 9:52 AM V C <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I’m not sure what you mean by “ >>>> you could council outsiders in productive ways of working with >>>> wikipedia.” They would just be accused of socking if they worked on her >>>> page. >>>> >>>> HTTPS://viki.wiki >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 8:27 AM J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> you could council outsiders in productive ways of working with >>>>> wikipedia. but instead we have repeated use of technical tools to deal >>>>> with >>>>> people problems. >>>>> >>>>> so no - no validation from me. rest assured , There will be >>>>> consequences for the bitey behavior. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 7:04 PM V C <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We have declared all multiple accounts of people brought in with no >>>>>> COI only to be accused of socking. Is there a “correct” way to handle >>>>>> this? >>>>>> >>>>>> HTTPS://viki.wiki >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>> From: V C <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 6:53 PM >>>>>> Subject: Fwd: Rambling Rambler userspace harrassment, edit warring, >>>>>> hounding, suppression of women's achievements on wikipedia >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Edit warring affecting women artists >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> victoria campbell <http://victoriacampbell.io> >>>>>> +12108975814 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>> From: V C <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 6:49 PM >>>>>> Subject: Rambling Rambler userspace harrassment, edit warring, >>>>>> hounding, suppression of women's achievements on wikipedia >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone give advice on this? I am writing from a gallery trying to >>>>>> update pages with contributions from recent scholarship and the other >>>>>> editors are SPA's with good intent but new. We have faced serious >>>>>> hounding, >>>>>> harassment, etc, and any attempt to declare COI or SPA is subject to >>>>>> predictive policing of edits, not quality of content or sources. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> VC >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents >>>>>> >>>>>> This user has blanked out their talk page history which reveals >>>>>> repeated persistent assumption of bad faith, repeated arbitrary or >>>>>> unmotivated removal of any content without appropriate discussion or >>>>>> providing explanation, filing incident reports intended to marginalize or >>>>>> ostracize, stonewalling and the abuse of editor tools or other forms of >>>>>> algorithmic governance to prevent deletion discussions or consensus. >>>>>> >>>>>> User is hounding expert editors with "evidence" as to canvassing, >>>>>> sockpuppetry, etc, while masquerading as an administrator. This user is >>>>>> not >>>>>> an administrator. >>>>>> >>>>>> Diff comparison exhibits the usual mistakes of a new editor and >>>>>> traces of a clean start but no evidence of bad faith contribs from an >>>>>> undesired fidelity >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=An_undesired_fidelity&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>> >>>>>> A call to improve pages related to Marcel Duchamp and his peers was >>>>>> broadcast over art world mailing list with links to diffs. No specific >>>>>> instruction to promote a certain point of view but the need to ensure >>>>>> legacy sources already cited in article was emphasized. Materials (like >>>>>> images) sourced from toutfait don't give proper attn to the scholarship >>>>>> they are sourced from; this is in breach of fair use of these resources >>>>>> for >>>>>> educational purposes. If Wikipedia wants to suppress recent scholarship, >>>>>> they can pay royalties -- but I'm not the person they would be dealing >>>>>> with >>>>>> to do so because I'm actually not affiliated beyond the art world with >>>>>> any >>>>>> of these subjects, alive or dead. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have checked Wikipedia policy and this does not seem to be in >>>>>> violation of rules, might be better to host an edit-a-thon than pull in >>>>>> new >>>>>> editors but otherwise in the range of acceptable behavior on Wikipedia. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cloaked redirect to avoid discussion to delete >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spiritual_America&action=history> >>>>>> despite >>>>>> this affecting female-founded art gallery with notability for mounting >>>>>> first presentation of artwork by Richard Prince >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Prince>; page erases women's >>>>>> contributions to redirect to RP with a focus on illicit content rather >>>>>> than >>>>>> historical exhibitions by well known artists of the Pictures >>>>>> Generation <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_Generation>. >>>>>> Ownership behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rhonda Roland Shearer >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhonda_Roland_Shearer&oldid=1316322946> >>>>>> now >>>>>> features unsourced lede, suppression of content, damage to context >>>>>> for appreciation for 'womens work' >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhonda_Roland_Shearer&oldid=1317112338> >>>>>> ; Rambling Rambler >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rambling_Rambler&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>> is >>>>>> now calling for protected status of page after demonstrating ownership >>>>>> behavior >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_content#Examples_of_ownership_behavior> >>>>>> with >>>>>> no evidence of actual abuse wrt SPA >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPA>'s or indication that updates to >>>>>> these pages was excessively promotional, unbalanced >>>>>> >>>>>> this edit provides only empirical object data for this readymade >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hat_Rack_(Duchamp)>, but >>>>>> drafted without concern for this work as currently part of an educational >>>>>> effort on the part of many editors >>>>>> >>>>>> In advance of the broken arm >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=In_Advance_of_the_Broken_Arm&oldid=1316733103> >>>>>> now >>>>>> has a confusing photograph with questionable copyright: how is it a >>>>>> digital >>>>>> rendering and also a photograph (with camera data)?? confusing as to how >>>>>> this is an "ordinary manufactured object" >>>>>> >>>>>> LHOOQ >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L.H.O.O.Q.&oldid=1316838120> >>>>>> has >>>>>> had its version history removed despite the size of the object referenced >>>>>> in article is obviously too big to be a found postcard and so >>>>>> watered down to previous version >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.H.O.O.Q.> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is but a selection of the biased, false, inaccurate or >>>>>> inappropriate content, or hindering, impeding or otherwise hampering the >>>>>> creation (and/or maintenance) of content that seems to be a pattern of >>>>>> behavior for Rambling Rambler >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rambling_Rambler&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> Asking for audit of sock accounts & quality of contributions be >>>>>> weighted wrt pattern of revert warring on RRS page since July/August and >>>>>> lots of hostility when "socks" are asked to disclose COI's. Unclear how a >>>>>> COI can exist at the same time as copyright violations: either socks are >>>>>> working for ppl that would give them permission to use pics for >>>>>> promotional >>>>>> purposes, or pics are being used w/o permission and therefore no COI. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please pick one and consider the impact of these changes on the state >>>>>> of the field and for the experience of new editors on wikipedia. >>>>>> — Preceding unsigned >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures> comment added >>>>>> by Alyssadavisgallery >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alyssadavisgallery> (talk >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alyssadavisgallery#top> • >>>>>> contribs >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alyssadavisgallery> >>>>>> ) 22:14, 16 October 2025 (UTC) >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016221400-Rambling_Rambler_userspace_harrassment,_edit_warring,_hounding,_suppression_of_w> >>>>>> Without comment as to the above complaint, I want to note that >>>>>> slightly earlier I filed a sockpuppet investigation related to OP's >>>>>> account: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/An undesired fidelity >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/An_undesired_fidelity>. >>>>>> — *rsjaffe* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rsjaffe> 🗣️ >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe> 22:22, 16 October >>>>>> 2025 (UTC) >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Rsjaffe-20251016222200-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016221400> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Clean_start all have the >>>>>> right to clean start but userspace harrassment, hounding and abuse of >>>>>> consensus are universally against conduct. I am getting involved because >>>>>> my >>>>>> IP is used for multiple purposes by multiple people and am not connected >>>>>> to >>>>>> other people trying to improve pages on the subject matter. >>>>>> Alyssadavisgallery >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alyssadavisgallery> (talk >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alyssadavisgallery>) 22:25, >>>>>> 16 October 2025 (UTC) >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016222500-Rsjaffe-20251016222200>You >>>>>> were blocked, so, no, you do not, in fact, have the right to a clean >>>>>> start. >>>>>> Any uninvolved administrator should feel free to close this nonsense >>>>>> immediately. See User:An undesired fidelity >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:An_undesired_fidelity>. *Bgsu98* >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bgsu98> (Talk) >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bgsu98> 22:30, 16 October >>>>>> 2025 (UTC) >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Bgsu98-20251016223000-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016222500> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> victoria campbell <http://victoriacampbell.io> >>>>>> +12108975814 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>> please visit: >>>> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ >>> >>> >> >> -- >> HTTPS://viki.wiki >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/
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