I try 3 to 6 months, but your results may vary. I would suggest checking out some editathons on zoom, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Philadelphia Or https://wikimediadc.org/wiki/Upcoming_events#November_10 Yes, the current consensus model can be weaponized and tends to be bitey. I don’t know if there are studies. Here is some more information about “coi” editing. https://wikipedia20.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/kmwtidhw Cheers
On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 11:04 PM V C <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you *so* much. What’s the timeframe for disengagement as you would > perceive it? Will watch video. > > I’ve emailed art+feminism. Are there any conversations about the role > algorithmic governance plays in the current consensus model happening now? > > Gratitude > HTTPS://viki.wiki > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 10:41 PM J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Have you talked to art+feminism? They have been doing this for many years >> https://artandfeminism.org/ >> >> Wikidata tends to be more fact based with linked open data. >> >> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3880310 >> >> Yes, as you see some editors seek to “win” edit wars by declaring coi >> rather than engaging in good faith collaboration. >> I would disengage for a time and return when edit warriors have moved on. >> Here is some background >> https://www.beutlerink.com/interviews/wikiconference-2024-coi-editing >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 8:36 PM V C <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> This is the only real advice I’ve been given. I’ve been transparent >>> about COI but not sure if even that applies bc I didn’t have prior >>> relationship to BLP before I was introduced to her in order to help clean >>> up pages on her, and improve pages that cite her scholarship. Other editors >>> are even farther removed! >>> >>> Any advice/links for how wiki data could help us catalogue articles >>> relevant to The Readymades of Marcel Duchamp would be deeply appreciated. >>> There are a lot of inconsistencies in image permissions. unclear how this >>> effort could be promotional if the citations for Rhonda Roland shearers >>> work are already present on the encyclopedia and have been for over a >>> decade. >>> >>> A call for editors was placed on mailing list because the artworks are >>> part of an art and law course dealing with CCBYSA - would it be too late to >>> host formal edit a thon on this? SPA accts would not need to exist were it >>> not for hounding/3RR and userspace harassments. >>> >>> We’ve asked for help many times to improve the pages, include recent >>> scholarship and describe artworks with accuracy (size, version history, >>> fabricators, references to historical prototypes, etc) and sourced a lot of >>> material previously unsourced. refusal to let newcomers incorporate these >>> facts have led us to question Wikipedia’s neutrality, because we’re not >>> replacing or removing data at all and don’t have any intention to. >>> >>> And thank you for being kind! >>> >>> >>> On Friday, October 17, 2025, J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> We need to be ambassadors to outsiders to produce the sum of all >>>> knowledge. Crying coi and sock is dysfunctional. Wikipedians in residence >>>> have been accused of coi before, how is that working out? >>>> A pivot to wikidata as prework can be productive. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 9:52 AM V C <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’m not sure what you mean by “ >>>>> you could council outsiders in productive ways of working with >>>>> wikipedia.” They would just be accused of socking if they worked on her >>>>> page. >>>>> >>>>> HTTPS://viki.wiki >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 8:27 AM J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> you could council outsiders in productive ways of working with >>>>>> wikipedia. but instead we have repeated use of technical tools to deal >>>>>> with >>>>>> people problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> so no - no validation from me. rest assured , There will be >>>>>> consequences for the bitey behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 7:04 PM V C <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We have declared all multiple accounts of people brought in with no >>>>>>> COI only to be accused of socking. Is there a “correct” way to handle >>>>>>> this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HTTPS://viki.wiki >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>> From: V C <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 6:53 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Fwd: Rambling Rambler userspace harrassment, edit warring, >>>>>>> hounding, suppression of women's achievements on wikipedia >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Edit warring affecting women artists >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> victoria campbell <http://victoriacampbell.io> >>>>>>> +12108975814 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>> From: V C <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 6:49 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Rambling Rambler userspace harrassment, edit warring, >>>>>>> hounding, suppression of women's achievements on wikipedia >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can anyone give advice on this? I am writing from a gallery trying >>>>>>> to update pages with contributions from recent scholarship and the other >>>>>>> editors are SPA's with good intent but new. We have faced serious >>>>>>> hounding, >>>>>>> harassment, etc, and any attempt to declare COI or SPA is subject to >>>>>>> predictive policing of edits, not quality of content or sources. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> VC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This user has blanked out their talk page history which reveals >>>>>>> repeated persistent assumption of bad faith, repeated arbitrary or >>>>>>> unmotivated removal of any content without appropriate discussion or >>>>>>> providing explanation, filing incident reports intended to marginalize >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> ostracize, stonewalling and the abuse of editor tools or other forms of >>>>>>> algorithmic governance to prevent deletion discussions or consensus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> User is hounding expert editors with "evidence" as to canvassing, >>>>>>> sockpuppetry, etc, while masquerading as an administrator. This user is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> an administrator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Diff comparison exhibits the usual mistakes of a new editor and >>>>>>> traces of a clean start but no evidence of bad faith contribs from an >>>>>>> undesired fidelity >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=An_undesired_fidelity&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A call to improve pages related to Marcel Duchamp and his peers was >>>>>>> broadcast over art world mailing list with links to diffs. No specific >>>>>>> instruction to promote a certain point of view but the need to ensure >>>>>>> legacy sources already cited in article was emphasized. Materials (like >>>>>>> images) sourced from toutfait don't give proper attn to the scholarship >>>>>>> they are sourced from; this is in breach of fair use of these resources >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> educational purposes. If Wikipedia wants to suppress recent scholarship, >>>>>>> they can pay royalties -- but I'm not the person they would be dealing >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> to do so because I'm actually not affiliated beyond the art world with >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> of these subjects, alive or dead. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have checked Wikipedia policy and this does not seem to be in >>>>>>> violation of rules, might be better to host an edit-a-thon than pull in >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> editors but otherwise in the range of acceptable behavior on Wikipedia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cloaked redirect to avoid discussion to delete >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spiritual_America&action=history> >>>>>>> despite >>>>>>> this affecting female-founded art gallery with notability for mounting >>>>>>> first presentation of artwork by Richard Prince >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Prince>; page erases women's >>>>>>> contributions to redirect to RP with a focus on illicit content rather >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> historical exhibitions by well known artists of the Pictures >>>>>>> Generation <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictures_Generation>. >>>>>>> Ownership behavior. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rhonda Roland Shearer >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhonda_Roland_Shearer&oldid=1316322946> >>>>>>> now >>>>>>> features unsourced lede, suppression of content, damage to context >>>>>>> for appreciation for 'womens work' >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rhonda_Roland_Shearer&oldid=1317112338> >>>>>>> ; Rambling Rambler >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rambling_Rambler&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> now calling for protected status of page after demonstrating ownership >>>>>>> behavior >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_content#Examples_of_ownership_behavior> >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> no evidence of actual abuse wrt SPA >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPA>'s or indication that updates to >>>>>>> these pages was excessively promotional, unbalanced >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this edit provides only empirical object data for this readymade >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Hat_Rack_(Duchamp)>, but >>>>>>> drafted without concern for this work as currently part of an >>>>>>> educational >>>>>>> effort on the part of many editors >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In advance of the broken arm >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=In_Advance_of_the_Broken_Arm&oldid=1316733103> >>>>>>> now >>>>>>> has a confusing photograph with questionable copyright: how is it a >>>>>>> digital >>>>>>> rendering and also a photograph (with camera data)?? confusing as to how >>>>>>> this is an "ordinary manufactured object" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LHOOQ >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L.H.O.O.Q.&oldid=1316838120> >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> had its version history removed despite the size of the object >>>>>>> referenced >>>>>>> in article is obviously too big to be a found postcard and so >>>>>>> watered down to previous version >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.H.O.O.Q.> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is but a selection of the biased, false, inaccurate or >>>>>>> inappropriate content, or hindering, impeding or otherwise hampering the >>>>>>> creation (and/or maintenance) of content that seems to be a pattern of >>>>>>> behavior for Rambling Rambler >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rambling_Rambler&action=edit&redlink=1> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Asking for audit of sock accounts & quality of contributions be >>>>>>> weighted wrt pattern of revert warring on RRS page since July/August and >>>>>>> lots of hostility when "socks" are asked to disclose COI's. Unclear how >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> COI can exist at the same time as copyright violations: either socks are >>>>>>> working for ppl that would give them permission to use pics for >>>>>>> promotional >>>>>>> purposes, or pics are being used w/o permission and therefore no COI. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please pick one and consider the impact of these changes on the >>>>>>> state of the field and for the experience of new editors on wikipedia. >>>>>>> — Preceding unsigned >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures> comment added >>>>>>> by Alyssadavisgallery >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alyssadavisgallery> (talk >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alyssadavisgallery#top> • >>>>>>> contribs >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Alyssadavisgallery> >>>>>>> ) 22:14, 16 October 2025 (UTC) >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016221400-Rambling_Rambler_userspace_harrassment,_edit_warring,_hounding,_suppression_of_w> >>>>>>> Without comment as to the above complaint, I want to note that >>>>>>> slightly earlier I filed a sockpuppet investigation related to OP's >>>>>>> account: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/An undesired fidelity >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/An_undesired_fidelity>. >>>>>>> — *rsjaffe* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rsjaffe> 🗣️ >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rsjaffe> 22:22, 16 October >>>>>>> 2025 (UTC) >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Rsjaffe-20251016222200-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016221400> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Clean_start all have the >>>>>>> right to clean start but userspace harrassment, hounding and abuse of >>>>>>> consensus are universally against conduct. I am getting involved >>>>>>> because my >>>>>>> IP is used for multiple purposes by multiple people and am not >>>>>>> connected to >>>>>>> other people trying to improve pages on the subject matter. >>>>>>> Alyssadavisgallery >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alyssadavisgallery> (talk >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alyssadavisgallery>) 22:25, >>>>>>> 16 October 2025 (UTC) >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016222500-Rsjaffe-20251016222200>You >>>>>>> were blocked, so, no, you do not, in fact, have the right to a clean >>>>>>> start. >>>>>>> Any uninvolved administrator should feel free to close this nonsense >>>>>>> immediately. See User:An undesired fidelity >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:An_undesired_fidelity>. *Bgsu98* >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bgsu98> (Talk) >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bgsu98> 22:30, 16 October >>>>>>> 2025 (UTC) >>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#c-Bgsu98-20251016223000-Alyssadavisgallery-20251016222500> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> victoria campbell <http://victoriacampbell.io> >>>>>>> +12108975814 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> HTTPS://viki.wiki >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >>> visit: >>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/gendergap.lists.wikimedia.org/
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