On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 06:36 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
<snip>
To me, I read the resistance to A-C and some of the responses as feeling
threatened by a loss of community, self-rule, etc. So... that's how I read
it; if that doesn't represent your thinking, then I apologize, and will
blame email as an imperfect medium. What may simply be "devil's advocate"
discussion or similar can easily be construed as reading a position or
belief, which can be quite incorrect. And, of course, the easiest way to
correct it is to call out the issue as you did :-)
I think that 'loss of community' isn't a threat - it's a mistake, but that's just my opinion. And 'self-rule' wouldn't change - the people that should be in charge, the committers, will probably be in charge in A-C. So no real change from those perspectives.
I think I'm just confused. There is a 'Jakarta must die' flavor to all of this. (That's a quote, btw). Call it paranoia on my part, but when I see Robert, who is usually very factual and correct, on the J-C list saying things like :
"commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
best of both worlds :)"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-commons- dev&m=106841721301207&w=2
as i understood it, this is what the flatteners (such as stephano) were proposing: projects can be part of the jakarta community - manifest by links from the main jakarta web site - without having to be managed by the jakarta pmc at least from the perspective of users. from the perspective of committers (of course) the product would be part of another project.
I'm just simply baffled by what's going on. How could it be that a J-C project is managed by A-C's PMC? Is that something the board has mandated? That A-C will managed codebases in other Apache projects?
as i understood it, flattening was the official way forward.
if flattening is to progress further then IMHO either jakarta will have to start throwing sub-projects out or the kind of vision outlined by stephano (and the other flatteners) whereby products can be in jakarta from the perspective of the user but in another project from the perspective of the ASF is needed.
jakarta has a good reputation in the java community and is probably now better known that apache within that community. losing the benefit of that reputation is something that many sub-projects seems to fear.
- robert
