On Sunday 23 March 2008, Marnie McCormack wrote: > All, > > If I have understood correctly the legal process which we've followed > to join the Apache project, then I am 'legally independent' as are > several of the other Qpid committers under discussion, as I have > signed an ICLA and am personally responsible/liable for all of my > contributions to Qpid. > > If this is not the spirit of the rule then I think it'd be better > stated in different terms to make it clearer and this debate less > subjective perhaps.
Directly from the graduation checklist: (which, BTW, Qpid has not filled out. That's another issue, albiet a minor one.) The legal definition of independent is long and boring, but basically it means that there is no binding relationship between the individuals, such as a shared employer, that is capable of overriding their free will as individuals, directly or indirectly. Dan > For what its worth, Qpid has attracted several other independent > committers since project inception. Somewhat unfortunately, after > making significant contribution, they're all tied up with their 'day > job' commitments at the moment (from the pre-graduation karma > discussions on our list). > > Speaking of the Apache way, I don't much enjoy being singled out for > personal discussion. The position of some of the committers on this > project is, by necessity, what it is. It's not some Machiavellian > attempt to subvert the process, truly. > > We're all trying to work together on a worthwhile project which we > know people are able to get benefit from. > > Regards, > Marnie > Qpid Team > > On 3/23/08, Daniel Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Friday 21 March 2008, Paul Fremantle wrote: > > > Yoav > > > > > > I have to say I think you have given a very good analysis. I think > > > that QPid has come a huge way towards Apacheness. Diversity is not > > > as great as it could be but meets the Incubator criteria. > > > > Huh? The graduation guide says "there are at least 3 legally > > independent committers" and I don't see that with Qpid. EVERY > > committer (except for the 2 mentors) on the qpid status page [1] can > > easily be traced to be associated with either RedHat or JP Morgan > > Chase. For example, if you check the credits page of the AMQP 0-10 > > spec [2] and look at the credits page (page xi), it associates > > EVERYONE on the list to either RedHat or JPMC except for: > > Jim Meyering > > Marnie McCormack > > Nuno Santos > > And you can trace those three from: > > Marnie McCormack - original qpid proposal [3] > > Nuno Santos - Linked in profile [4] > > Jim Meyering - Other redhad stuff [5] > > > > Thus, with 100% of the committers directly associated with just 2 > > companies, I DON'T feel that it meets the Incubator criteria of 3. > > Yes, they've done a good job trying to hide their affiliations. But > > the fact remains that the affiliations are there and can be found > > with very little work. I tried to get the community to clarify the > > above duing the discussions, but they didn't address it at all, or > > at least to my satisfaction. > > > > IMO, if there is even a question of diversity at all, that warrants > > a -1. From my experience, there isn't a compelling reason to speed > > them out of the incubator if there is a question like this. Lets > > make sure that they CAN address the diversity issue first. It looks > > like they are working on it, which is great, but lets make sure they > > will follow up on that and get it done. That's an important part of > > the incubators job. > > > > Anyway, I'd vote -1, but my vote wouldn't be binding. > > > > Dan > > > > > > [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/qpid.html > > [2] > > > > https://jira.amqp.org/confluence/download/attachments/720900/amqp.0- > >10.pdf?version=1 [3] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/QpidProposal > > [4] http://www.linkedin.com/in/nunofsantos > > [5] > > http://hany.sk/~hany/RPM/f-8-x86_64/qpidc-devel-0.2-5.fc7.i386.html > > > > > Paul > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Yoav Shapira > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:55 PM, Carl Trieloff > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > At this point the Apache Qpid community with support from > > > > > > its mentors feels that > > > > > > > > > > > > it is ready to graduate to an official top level project > > > > > > at Apache > > > > > > > > > > but another voice asks: are they really ready today? has the > > > > > IPMC > > > > > > > > > > fully equipped them for the chanlleges ahead? do they really > > > > > understand how to mentor new independent developers into > > > > > committers and PMCers? is the diversity sufficient to have > > > > > learnt how to have disagreements on technical matters whilst > > > > > retaining community spirit? > > > > > > > > It's a hard call for me as well. The technical bits are all > > > > there, processes followed, paperwork filed, etc. More > > > > importantly, the qpid community has been open, receptive to > > > > feedback from everyone inside and outside their group, welcoming > > > > to new opinions from new people, and respectful of ASF spirit, > > > > not just its letter. There are disagreements and debates on > > > > various technical matters without hurting the community. That's > > > > why I support their graduation. > > > > > > > > It would have been really nice if one or two more committers > > > > from new organizations had been added during the previous few > > > > months, but that didn't happen. But I don't think the fact the > > > > committers come from a small set of organizations necessarily > > > > means there's no diversity. And I don't want to introduce > > > > artificial requirements. The "are they really ready" question is > > > > subjective by definition, and it's a good one, but I still vote > > > > +1 ;) > > > > > > > > Yoav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >---- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > > J. Daniel Kulp > > Principal Engineer, IONA > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://www.dankulp.com/blog > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- J. Daniel Kulp Principal Engineer, IONA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dankulp.com/blog --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
