On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Upayavira <u...@odoko.co.uk> wrote: > Personally, I'm not against nagging. Actually, when I'm on the receiving > end, I usually appreciate it, as timeliness is not a quality I am widely > praised for. > > Some podlings are in a position that is different from TLPs - they are > new to the whole thing, and may therefore require a little more help > than we would expect a TLP to need in remembering their > responsibilities. However, if I were needing to nag a podling that is > otherwise near graduation, I'd perhaps be worried. > > The DNR marker is still important though, and we should be sure that we > don't 'over-nag'. We encourage (more earlier in the process of > incubation, less later) and if after a few nags they don't do it, then > DNR is just fine.
I want, at least, a *quick* way to find out how many DNR's are pending, and be able to make informed decisions about nagging. So I plan to go ahead with the template that allows a tool to tell who is missing. > > Upayavira > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012, at 09:04 AM, David Crossley wrote: >> Tim Williams wrote: >> > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Marvin Humphrey >> > > <mar...@rectangular.com> wrote: >> > >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Tim Williams <william...@gmail.com> >> > >> wrote: >> > >>> FWIW, I feel the same. I'd rather see 'did not report' and let the >> > >>> IPMC look for that pattern. Maybe just have your template generator >> > >>> default to DNR in the text? >> > >> >> > >> +1 on defaulting to DNR. >> > >> >> > >> How about sending out the whole Incubator report to all podling dev >> > >> lists, >> > >> every month? That way the DNR shows up without an IPMC member having to >> > >> notice and take action. But in addition, it increases podling exposure >> > >> to >> > >> other projects and to the ASF at large. >> > >> >> > >> An alternative is to send it out to only the podlings that are >> > >> reporting for a >> > >> cycle, but that's more work and doesn't serve the purpose of connecting >> > >> the >> > >> podling to being in the Incubator quite so cleanly. >> > > >> > > >> > > I feel all that we are all volunteers, that podlings are volunteers >> > > who don't necessarily have their organizational act together, and that >> > > calling them out for DNR is not a very effective technique to >> > > providing the supervision that we, as a PMC, are on the hook for. So >> > > I'm inclined for now to nag, and to spend a few minutes making that >> > > job less labor-intensive. >> > >> > I'm beginning to think your mind's made up and the original question >> > was a pleasantry, but in case not... >> > >> > I hold a different view of things. While I think that we, ok you, are >> > on the hook for a board report, we've (PMC) delegated[1] the reporting >> > of each podling to the mentors that we approved for that podling. We >> > aren't "calling out the podling" as DNR - we're calling out their >> > mentor as DNR. If there's additional nags to go out, I'd do my >> > "default to DNR" and send the nag to the mentors directly. >> > >> > Ultimately, making that job less labor-intensive involves getting >> > mentors and would-be-mentors to realize they can't simply go around >> > spewing their seeds as absentee fathers - it's a real commitment; to >> > the podling and to the foundation. Shucks, keeping a record of >> > deadbeat mentors would prolly help... >> > >> > In the end though, you've a thankless and tough job, so consider these >> > as constructive thoughts to be readily ignored in favor of whatever it >> > takes to get your job done:) >> > >> > Thanks, >> > --tim >> > >> > [1] - >> > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Mentor >> >> Things should be in their hands as much as possible. >> >> In my opinion each podling group of developers should be >> ensuring that their board report is ready, with the mentors >> just mentoring and making sure that actual status does get >> reported. >> >> I wonder if we could utilise the podling metadata system >> at content/podlings.xml >> to get a podling PPMC member or a mentor to set an attribute >> to mark that the report is received. Put the PPMC in the loop. >> >> This gets them used to overseeing their own project, being >> self-reliant, and maintaining their own records. >> >> Another benefit of editing that file is that they see when >> their next report is due and whether their metadata needs >> to be updated. >> >> Any nag to them could encourage them to visit that file. >> >> -David >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
