I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points. Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that, but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and we'll bring active new members into the Foundation.
Julian On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen <h...@apache.org> wrote: > > I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep > contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to > know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in > Apache way. > > Hao Chen > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and asking > > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being voted in > > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > > frequently. > > > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members have > > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be voted > > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if there > > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release managers > > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged group > > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have not > > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. Obviously > > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but I > > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. We’ve > > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board report. > > > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were voted in > > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > > away. > > > > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for > > whatever reason cannot help. > > > > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully > > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. These > > people have attained merit. > > > > > > > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. > > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job and > > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this list > > for discussion. > > > > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” > > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” > > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working. > > > > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. > > > > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able > > podlings and mentors into the Incubator. > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Justin > > > > > > 1. > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > 2. > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
