From: "Santosh Helekar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dr.Santosh asked for a double-blind "control" (read below), admitting
himself that this is difficult for such rare cases. The proposed method
itself excludes all miracles.
The proposed method is what is called scientific method. Only when one
follows that method can one honestly claim that an "intense scientific
procedure" was conducted....
***Miracles are special cases, rare, extraordinary, unexplained, sometimes
even unrepeatable. Your "scientific method" cannot be used, as you only
admit. Even now I cannot understand "your method" for such cases. About your
"scientific method", it is the method to be used for common clinical cases.
We have studied it in Science, Epistemology and Sociology.
> > Both Jose and Fr. Ivo are Catholics who believe in miracles.
***As a Catholic, I would accept the possibility of miracles, as the Church
teaches, but would not accept as miracles those of Lourdes or those required
for the Canonization of Saints, unless the scientific criteria are strictly
being verified, as it is required by the Bishops and the Medical Committees.
... However, in stark contrast to Fr. Ivo, Jose has always said that he
believes in them because of his faith...
***This is not true, as Dr.Jose has already replied to you.
...just like my scientific colleague and friend Jean-Baptiste here in
Houston. These men of science never claim that there is scientific
evidence for their beliefs, or that someone has conducted an intense
scientific procedure to confirm their beliefs, or that their scientific
reasoning somehow supports what they believe based on faith. That is why
I respect their position, and have no argument against their beliefs.
***This is a poor compliment to them and to the Christians who do so. A
common Christian will believe as the Church proposes (not everyone can try
to deepen in the same way). But every Christian has the duty to deepen his
study of Christian Faith. "Scientific evidence" or "reasoning" can be also
historical evidence, substantiated wherever possible with modern scientific
experiments. If your friend-scientist does not find rational, historical,
theological grounds for his Faith, then he is still a "child" in his
knowledge of Christian Religion. He needs to increase and update his
knowledge, as he is doing in the scientific field...
Fr. Ivo, on the other hand, despite the fact that he does not come from a
scientific background, persists in making all kinds of bogus scientific
claims in support of his beliefs, and in misrepresenting the nature of
science and its purpose, in the service of his faith. That is why I am
compelled to respond to his pronouncements about science in this public
forum.
***Precisely you are trying to do something that surpasses your strength,
because you yourself admit that Science does not have anything to do with
the 'supernatural". You are trying to deny the existence of God and of
miracles in the name of Science. I have the duty of replying to you and
show the rationale of Christian Faith. Biblical exegesis studies the
biblical narratives scientifically, with all the modern ressources in the
literary, historical and theological field.
Had he confined himself to preaching his religion, and expressing his pure
faith in miracles and the supernatural, devoid of any reference to
science, as Fr. Botelho and others have done in the past, I would have
left him alone.
***You are absolutely wrong. Christian Faith is not "pure faith" in
miracles. It is a historical event, it has its basis in history and
therefore, it is observable in itself or in its effects. It transcends the
natural phenomena but it has an impact on the nature. We are not preaching
Resurrection of Jesus which is a 'figment of faith', but is a historical
event. God intervenes in the history of humankind. If the Resurrection is a
fact, then Christianity exists; if it is not, then Christianity does not.
Saint Paul states it clearly: "If Christ has not risen, all your faith is a
delusion; you are back in your sins" (1 Cor 15:17). Christianity is not
"God-delusion".
Fr.Jude Botelho has been giving Sunday homilies, with reflections for life
(some Goanetters called it "junk"). He is not dealing with theological and
scientific issues. I am dealing with the debate on issues such as evolution,
Big-Bang, miracles, Resurrection. Dr.Santosh has read a lot of literature on
these issues. He should read books on God's existence, Resurrection,
Virginal Conception of Jesus, miracles written by Hans Kueng, Raymond Brown,
Juan Alfaro.They study the issues from all angles. We cannot preach a
"religion" which is devoid of any reference to science, because Incarnation
is a historical fact, it is God's intervention through Christ. We cannot
tell 'lies' or 'fairy tales' to the people. Thanks to the efforts of
Dr.Santosh to reduce God and Christianity to 'figments of mind' (or beliefs
without scientific and historical support) in the name of scientific
research, I could react strongly to his attempts... Let him deny everything
in this Forum, even if it is historical and well-documented, he cannot be
believed. We are not credulous, gullible people. Scientific temper is
required today from everyone, whether it is in science, sociology, history,
philosophy or theology...
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
