As I read your answer I may be found a solution and you might tell me what it is worth.
We could for example encrypt the account number of a customer and not the transaction or the value of the transaction. This way I could send a query on the encrypted value of the customer account which wouldn't increase in a significant way the time of treatment? What do you say? May be you need to know more of why I need security and what the system is meant to do. On 23 May 2010 16:28, hawkett <hawk...@gmail.com> wrote: > Encryption might be the right solution for your application, but it > does carry some significant limitations on your ability to use app > engine and increases your app's complexity significantly. > > If you intend to encrypt your data, you will need to consider the > following issues (and probably more besides) > > 1. Encrypted data can be very difficult to query. Consider the query > "SELECT * FROM Document WHERE author = 'Joe' AND tag = 'Science'". > Both the author and tag fields cannot be encrypted, unless you intend > to also encrypt the query values. If you intend to encrypt these > fields as well, then things like ordering your data correctly become > very difficult. Debugging your queries won't be much fun either. Some > queries (such as those that match the beginning of a string) will not > be possible. > > 2. You need to decide whether you intend to encrypt the data on app > engine, or in the client (probably the browser). If you intend to do > it on app engine, then the means of encryption and decryption need to > form part of your uploaded application, and you need to consider how > you will protect the *means* by which data is encrypted and > decrypted. In this situation, the data will spend some time on app > engine in an unencrypted state. If you intend to encrypt in the > browser, then you seriously limit the useful work you can do with the > data on app engine. > > 3. If you intend to use the task queue, you may need to encrypt the > data in your tasks as well. > > 4. You cannot encrypt your application code - I'm not sure if google > does this for you, but I suspect not. > > 5. Structured data is more difficult to maintain if it is encrypted. > Consider the following database model > > class Person(db.Model): > name : StringProperty() > address : StringProperty() > email : StringProperty() > .... > > To truly encrypt all of your data on app engine you would need to > encrypt each of these fields separately, or combine them into a single > encrypted field, which will make querying on them almost impossible. > > 6. Application logs are probably not encrypted (I doubt they are, but > not sure), and you need to be careful what data is exposed in your > logs. > > 7. Using the admin console to look at your data will be next to > useless. Your next best option would probably be an implementation > based on either the custom admin pages or the remote API. > > 8. Encryption reduces your application performance. > > So when you say it does not hurt to encrypt, that may be true for your > application, but encrypting data in the data store presents > significant barriers for most applications, and can seriously limit > the amount of value you can get out of app engine. For most > applications it makes a lot of sense to understand the security around > the datastore itself, and see encryption as last resort. > > If all you need is a cloud based data storage solution where you dump > encrypted blobs of data, then you may get better mileage using Google > storage for developers - http://code.google.com/apis/storage/ > > I'm trying to highlight that data encryption on app engine is not > actually a very simple solution to data security for most classes of > application. Given this is the case, its a pity the only other option > is to assume it is not secure - knowing what security measures google > has in place would be a real help for the majority of classes of > application. > > On May 22, 11:01 pm, Keren Or Shalom <v07768198...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I believe that the cloud is the solution and it does not hurt to encrypt. > > > > My requirement is very stringent because if I succeed my system would > become > > systemic. > > > > On 23 May 2010 00:38, hawkett <hawk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't necessarily disagree with the approach - depending on your > > > organisation, it will probably provide the most reliable data > > > security. > > > > > All solutions carry a risk of a data breach, however, and the > > > encryption solution is no different. One of the arguments for cloud > > > data security is that organisations generally over-estimate their own > > > ability to secure their data, and that cloud data is actually more > > > secure - precisely because the cloud vendor has greater capability > > > (knowledge, processes, people, infrastructure) to provide that > > > security. From this perspective it may be *less* responsible to do > > > data security in-house. > > > > > So my point is that when a someone asks 'What is the data security > > > situation with app engine' - it would be nice to do better than 'you > > > better encrypt it'. Encryption might be the right answer for your > > > organisation - but some information from google around auditing > > > processes, employee access policies, notification when your data was > > > accessed, the reasons why your data might be accessed etc. would > > > probably lead most businesses to opt for a solution that didn't > > > involve them taking on the security burden themselves. Most > > > businesses would say 'ok, that sounds good - I understand breaches can > > > happen, but it sounds like you guys are pretty organised and take this > > > stuff seriously'. > > > > > I'm sure google has a great many policies and procedures in place to > > > secure app engine data, but when the presented options are 'encrypt > > > it' or 'we'll look at it if we want', well, its a much harder sell. > > > > > On May 22, 8:44 pm, Keren Or Shalom <v07768198...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I don't believe it would be responsible for any business to count on > the > > > > goodwill of a provider no matter how good his reputation to preserve > the > > > > security of strategic data. It does not matter what might be the > promise > > > of > > > > Google I think the only way is the way that Geoffrey propose. > > > > > > On 22 May 2010 21:07, hawkett <hawk...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Geoffrey, > > > > > > > I'm sure you didn't mean your response to come across this way - > but > > > > > it reads - 'encrypt your data, or expect google to look at it for > > > > > whatever reason they see fit'. As this thread alone shows, data > > > > > security is of huge importance to many people using or considering > the > > > > > use of app engine. > > > > > > > Is this approach to data security also your perception of app > engine > > > > > for business? > > > > > > http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2010/05/announcing-google-app-engine-f. > > > .. > > > > > > > Sorry for the semi-rant, but it's hard work convincing folks to put > > > > > their data in the cloud, and every authoritative (you are listed as > an > > > > > API guru) statement that erodes their perception of the cloud > vendor's > > > > > security practices makes that job harder. I guess this highlights > > > > > again the need for unambiguous statements on this - probably in the > > > > > form of an SLA. I recommend that anyone who has similar concerns > star > > > > > this issue - > > >http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=501 > > > > > - raised nearly 2 years ago. Ironic that the issue id is '501' - > HTTP > > > > > speak for 'Not Implemented'. Some kudos though for starting that > > > > > process as of a couple of days ago - > > > > >http://code.google.com/appengine/business/sla.html, > > > > > despite the lack of data privacy clauses. As noted in the issue, > the > > > > > number one concern is data privacy, not uptime. > > > > > > > Colin > > > > > > > On May 21, 2:08 pm, Geoffrey Spear <geoffsp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On May 21, 4:20 am, Madame Or <v07768198...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Given the high sensitivity of my data it is very important that > no > > > one > > > > > > > except of course the individuals I would allow and the software > I > > > > > > > would enable to access the data stored in that BigTable. Hence > I > > > would > > > > > > > like to know also if it is possible to prevent anyone, > including > > > > > > > Google, to have access to my data stored in BigTable? > > > > > > > > There's no way to prevent Google from accessing anything stored > on > > > > > > their servers. It's unlikely they'd do so without a good reason, > but > > > > > > if you want to ensure security, use strong encryption. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > Groups > > > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > e...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > > > e...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > > groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > google-appengine@googlegroups.com > > > . > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > e...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > > > e...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > > > > V07768198309 > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > e...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Google App Engine" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com > . > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib > e...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > > > -- > > V07768198309 > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appeng...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- V07768198309 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. 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