Hanks or the correction here. I apologize for the error. Once again I stand corrected.
-----Original Message----- From: Jerry Posey [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:25 AM To: Jim Grimsby JR. Subject: RE: Opinions Of A Former AT Software Engineer You are wrong about System Access as we have 13 copies and paid a one time fee and have never paid another dime and get updates regularly. Jerry Posey Computer Technician Envision, Inc. 2301 S. Water St. Wichita, KS 67213 O: 316-425-7257 F: 316-267-4312 www.envisionus.com Envision: To improve the quality of life and provide inspiration for the blind and visually impaired through employment, outreach, rehabilitation, education and research. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Grimsby JR. [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 9:14 AM To: 'bob jutzi' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: Opinions Of A Former AT Software Engineer Well I did think of making the below points. The point of the message beyond responding to remark maid buy butch was to point out how the screen readers were evolving. The below points are more about marketing, and bringing the screen reading software to the end user. Now the point has been brought up I will give my view on this. How are we being served buy the marketing and cells departments of the screen reading manufactory. First www.nvaccess.org well this is clear. They produce an open sorce screen reader. They bring you the productfree of charge with the option of donations. They partner with others to bring you prayed options such as vocalizer expressive. This is a wonderful model. It makes the software available to anyone that wants to use it. There are problems with this approach. Joe of serotech speaks more eloquently then I of the problems with this approach. the main problem is support. Where do you go if you need help or support for the program. You can go to the mailing list or find a 3rd party that might do skype with you to help you with a problem. There is no one from the producer who you can speak live to and get your problem solved, so in short it is free you get what you pay for in the way of support. Gw micro and window-eyes. They have a leace to own package. You pay every month tell you get it paid off. You then have a SMA that means you are covered for a few years you then get a SMA that will cover you for another few years. You only have topay once for what ever version of windows. You can install it on as many computers as you need it. No copy protection. System access a subscription model. You pay yearly or monthly for the program. You never get it paid off. You always have the latest version of the sotware how ever. The subscription price is the same no matter what version of the windows software your working with. You can get other service's bundeld with it. It does have copy protection. There is a free option at www.satogo.com so if you need the software you can get it for free. The problem with this it runs in the cloud and so getting it started has a delay factor. Jaws for windows. No subscription or leace o to own model. You pay up front for the whole pacage you then have to buy a sma. You pay more depending on what version of windows you want to use. How I would rank the each system. Gw micro and window eyes. Leace to own once you pay for It it is yours. You can then pay for a sma when you need one. You hae support when you need it. System access serrotek. You subscribe to it you have support you also can get a budnel of oher hins not offered buy anyone else. In fact I would go so far as to say the main point of system access is to give you access to those other things. At least that is the point the company has in creating it in the first place. One thing you should undersand is that they produce the screen reader that is not the main focus of the company. NVDA www.nvaccess.org. free anyone can get it with paid options offered buy partners. No in house support. Jaws for windows fs. You pay out the nose over and over you get in house support Ok well I hink that covers that -----Original Message----- From: bob jutzi [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 6:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Opinions Of A Former AT Software Engineer A well-written article; however, I wish he would have mentioned the fact of GW being the more user-friendly of the two; example, GW's lease-to-own (LTO) program, only needing to purchase one Window-eyes in order to use all versions of Windows XP and above, as well as the lack of that stupid activation nonsense found in all FS software. On 8/13/2013 8:34 AM, Jim Grimsby JR. wrote: > Yeh and then for those of us who have more then one disability the > problem is conpunded. Being blind and hearing impaird makes it a nice > fun mix. > When you go to an interview and are having problems hearing the person > who is interviewing you and trying to explain how you as a blind > mostly deff person is going to do the job. > He also misses the point in a few places in the article. > He talks about how wonderful NVDA is. It is truly a wonderful program > and I am glad we have it. One of the main reasons though NVDA is able > to do as much as it does is because of the work that he basicly > laughed at gw micro for doing. If they had not helped other companys > for nothing to work with standards NVDA would not now be able to use > those standards to provide the access it does with out video drivers > and the like. NvAcess is taking the same approach gw micro has taken > in the past and now if we can get the access standard use it will work with NVDA and window-eyes and even jaws. > The next point this fellow misses is you get to the point in evalution > of a program where revalution is no longer needed. Major inovations is > not really what we need any more. Access is good enough that you now > just need evolution. Also you get to a point with programs that what > major revalution is realy possible. > I mean lets take Microsoft word. Getting us out of the screen reader > for the moment. What major revolutionary ways can Microsoft really > take a word processer at this point. Ok they went to a ribbon interface. Mixing the > menu and dialog interface. They took it to the cloud. That being said you > still write documents the way you always have. > The same is true with your screen reader. The voices sound better. > The access gets smoother. More and more programs become accessible. > Some programs get broken and some get fixed some don't. how then do > we proseed to make screen reading revolutionary again. Better > question even if we could do we really want to. I have been using > windows now for 21 year way back in 1992 with slimware window bridge. > Back then everything was a innovation. It was exciting. Beta testing > in the 90s for bridge later on public betas of window-eyes and jaws. > This was fun. It still is fun. > Seeing what new things are offered to us and make life better and > providing us with an accessible digital life style. > While the innovation was fun exciting and interesting half the time it > didn't work right so there was a mix of a lot of fun and excitement > with lots of frustration. The frustration at times is till there. > How-ever it is no where near the level it once was. So no at this > point the screen readers don't need major inovations. They need a > constent evolution to get better and more stable. > The question is is this happening. With NVDA it is. Bugs are being fixed > all the time. The package keeps getting better and better. Gw micro is > doing the same with window-eyes we are seeing the package getting > better with every relece. > Jaws is a package that is getting better as well. So we are seeing > the evolution of these packages. > New features capability and access being added. > Now lets talk about bug fixing. The most important thing to think > about when you get to the evolutionary faze is bug fixing and stability. > NVDA as I said fixes bug and becomes more stable all the time. Jaws > has stability issues how-ever they provide releaces quite often to fix > bugs they find in the package. Gw micro on the other hand is a little > slower to do this. So we don't see has many bugs fixes coming from in house to you the > user. That being said when we do get the bug fixes they fix the bugs. > Also we have to note that NVDA can afford a faster relece cycle and it > is always in public beta and you can use the beta snap shots at any > time. They can do this because of the nature of open sorce. Enough > has been written else where that I will not bother to explain this > here. Fs can afford to relece faster yes because they are larger. > Even though they relece faster many of the bugs that they must be able > to reproduce that have been around for years don't get fixed. Can > anyone say dectalk access 32. Fs synth 32 crashing on windows 64 bit > systems and jaws getting unloaded in all kinds of situations for no > reason. You know they can reproduce this and they still have not > fixed the problem. If gw can reproduce the problem gw fixes it. > This being said some long standing bugs in window-eyes still have not > gotten fixed. > So to sum it up. We are in a evolutionary faze of windows screen > rding programs. Evalution is on going. Features and access is being > added. Bug fixing is on going. > The three in bug fixing at the moment rank as follows. This is my > view and my view only. NVAccess NVDA GW micro and window-eyes. Even > though the cycle is slower more long standing bugs get fixed. Finely > fs and jaws. > Lots of bugs are fixed faster relece cycle but long standing bugs that > have been there for years are not fixed. Now the mobile situation is > another matter and beyond the scoap of this message. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Butch Bussen [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 6:28 PM > To: josh n rivera > Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: Opinions Of A Former AT Software Engineer > > Wow!!!! hundreds of blind folks just waiting for screen readers to > catch up to get a job. That certainly wasn't the problem when many of > us blind were looking for jobs in Nebvada. The biggest hurdle we face > is prejudice by sighted people. Perhaps you've peaked in the window > and seen gw micro staff just sitting around. hmmmmm. > 73 > Butch > WA0VJR > Node 3148 > Wallace, ks. > > > On Mon, 12 Aug 2013, > josh n rivera wrote: > >> Wow! >> These articles were quite revealing, to put it mildly. It's sad to >> see that the two main screen readers out there are, seemingly, >> sitting on their back-sides, just coasting, while hundreds of blind >> persons are out there unable to find employment, because these screen >> readers have not kept up. >> >> >> On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 10:14:14 -0500 "Gary King" <[email protected]> >> writes: >> Last night I ran across a couple of interesting articles written by a >> former head of Software Engineering of a major assistive technology >> company. Since Window-Eyes was mentioned in the articles in a >> historical context, I am passing them along to the list. >> >> http://chrishofstader.com/the-death-of-screen-reader-innovation/ >> >> http://chrishofstader.com/screen-reader-failure-innovation-deteriorat >> i >> on- >> despair/ >> >> Gary King >> [email protected] >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> ____________________________________________________________ >> 30-second trick for a flat belly >> This daily 30-second trick BOOSTS your body's #1 fat-burning >> hormone >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5209092b23d3092a3251st04vuc >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> sender > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message > is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to > [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You >> can > manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your > message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your > message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. 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