Oh fine then. :/ On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Joachim Sehlstedt <u...@newstyledata.net>wrote:
> Even after you uninstall IE in Windows 7 the dlls that handle the > rendering is still there because so many 3rd party applications uses > them to render help files and such. So yes they can still expect it to > work even if you uninstall it, it's just the gui you uninstall. > > 1nsane wrote: > > Windows 7 has an option to remove IE as part of windows features. There's > > nothing to prevent oems (what with those fun lawsuits), especially those > in > > Europe from removing IE and bundling say Firefox and Opera. > > > > Valve can no longer expect IE to be part of every PC. > > > > Though I must say, there's a few fun IE "quirks" that I would miss and > could > > no longer use if an engine switch was made. (IE's failed URL parsing FTW) > > > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:45 PM, <gamead...@127001.org> wrote: > > > > > >> I'd argue that MS is kept pretty good with security fixes, but I'd also > >> argue that that misses the bigger point. The reason people don't like > >> using > >> IE for showing the MOTD is because of the range of versions people are > >> using. It follows that people aren't keeping it updated. From THAT, it > >> follows that you don't even need a _new_ exploit. Though the downside > of > >> including a different rendering engine with Steam AND keeping it updated > is > >> a much bigger testing burden; swings and roundabouts. > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux- > >>> boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Newlove > >>> Sent: 04 June 2009 22:27 > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] New browser engine support for steam? > >>> > >>> Indeed, and what's up with Steams constant I/O usage even when it's > >>> supposed to be in idle? > >>> > >>> My biggest beef with IE in Steam is security. We all know IE is not > >>> know for it's high security and it continue to be the most targeted > >>> browser and favorite entry point of malware. Using IE made sense when > >>> we just had the store using it. It also made sense in the community > >>> tab. But using IE for rendering servers MOTD screens is crazy for me > >>> since they can be pointed to anything and the in-game browser that can > >>> also be navigated to any page. > >>> > >>> It's just a question of time before things go to shit. What if some > >>> clever hacker, or even scriptkiddie, decides next time there's a major > >>> IE exploit available, could be for IE6, IE7, IE8 or all of them, it > >>> doesn't matter, to set up a bunch of TF2 server with stolen server > >>> community names, hacked player count and point the MOTD to a site with > >>> the exploit code and payload? Huh? That would just be great publicity, > >>> imagine all the stolen Steam logins, paypal accounts and credit card > >>> numbers. > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Yatin Vadhia<yatinvad...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I also think that the Steam client needs to lose some "fat". In it's > >>>> current state I find that it's far too bloated and is far to resource > >>>> intensive. > >>>> > >>>> I know a lot of people who chose not to activate games through Steam > >>>> for this reason. > >>>> > >>>> By moving to a different browser, they could also cater for Macs, and > >>>> if they pull this off, they would quickly dominate the Mac gaming > >>>> Market. I know there are many issues with this, but Valves own > >>>> > >>> content > >>> > >>>> would be incredible on it's own. > >>>> > >>>> On 4 Jun 2009, at 17:35, Saul Rennison <saul.renni...@gmail.com> > >>>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>>> tl;dr the whole topic but I've investigated this issue before, after > >>>>> scanning the Source Engine leak, I saw a folder called *QHTM* in the > >>>>> *VGUI*folder. > >>>>> > >>>>> *QHTM* seems like entirely it's own engine, it's very lightweight > >>>>> and small: > >>>>> http://www.gipsysoft.com/qhtm/ > >>>>> > >>>>> 2009/6/4 ics <i...@ics-base.net> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Regarding P2P, there is no need for it (yet) because Steam content > >>>>>> servers seem to be able to cope with current need of bandwidth just > >>>>>> fine. I looked them time to time on free TF2 weekend when a lot of > >>>>>> players got on downloading TF2 and there was around 40%-50% use on > >>>>>> them > >>>>>> globally at peak times, if you count them all together. Some > >>>>>> > >>> content > >>> > >>>>>> servers at some countries were on quite heavy use but still worked > >>>>>> pretty fine, if you believe the graphs on Steam website. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I also manage to dl these days 1MB/s - 1,9 MB/s compared to the old > >>>>>> days > >>>>>> 20-90KB/s from Steam content servers. Some files come slower but > >>>>>> thats > >>>>>> propably due to their smaller filesize and their count (a lots of > >>>>>> small > >>>>>> files). Plus all the content is packed up so it saves some > >>>>>> > >>> bandwidth > >>> > >>>>>> too. I personally like the current system over P2P a lot. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> However, if there is one thing to improve with the current system, > >>>>>> that > >>>>>> would be the content servers managing server-side updates. At the > >>>>>> most > >>>>>> urgent time when update is out and everyone is downloading the > >>>>>> > >>> latest > >>> > >>>>>> files to their servers, there is often a lot of "connection reset" > >>>>>> messages and downloading the patch hangs a lot before it even > >>>>>> > >>> starts. > >>> > >>>>>> -ics > >>>>>> > >>>>>> David Kellaway kirjoitti: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> 2009/6/4 Roman Hatsiev <otst...@gmail.com>: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sure thing, this is a key issue of Steam. IE is evil so P2P > >>>>>>>> > >>> content > >>> > >>>>>>>> distribution, better server browser and other minor features can > >>>>>>>> wait > >>>>>>>> till we finish the holy quest of removing IE dependency from > >>>>>>>> > >>> Steam. > >>> > >>>>>>>> Yeah! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> There's really no need to troll this discussion. There are > >>>>>>> > >>> numerous > >>> > >>>>>>> reasons why swapping out IE would be a good idea that aren't > >>>>>>> "Micro$oft are evil!!" kneejerks: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> - Control over which plugins can be run and at what privilege > >>>>>>> > >>> level > >>> > >>>>>>> (great for security) > >>>>>>> - Guaranteed consistent rendering behaviour > >>>>>>> - Increased performance > >>>>>>> - More features (like rounded corners via CSS) > >>>>>>> - Support for users who don't have IE installed or available on > >>>>>>> their > >>>>>>> PC (they do exist!) > >>>>>>> - Easier support for guys running Steam on Wine etc. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Since Valve don't seem to be doing anything big with the platform > >>>>>>> > >>> or > >>> > >>>>>>> community right now, this would be a good thing to focus on. P2P > >>>>>>> > >>> is > >>> > >>>>>>> mostly pointless when Valve have a world-class server network to > >>>>>>> handle games (I routinely get 1.2mbps and up from Steam) and > >>>>>>> > >>> custom > >>> > >>>>>>> content is available from dozens of sources (not to mention FastDL > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> servers), and there isn't really anything else I can see that > >>>>>>> warrants > >>>>>>> updating (except maybe giving the server browser more "power user" > >>>>>>> features like advanced filtering). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> archives, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> archives, > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> - Saul. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>> > >>> archives, please visit: > >>> > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
