Yes, William, perfectly expressed but polite also. It is a pity, that such subject too often require, that they are the gods in their field, but lacking the most simple concepts, as you said. We can do nothing against & why should we. They will bump their nose very hard - sooner or later.
By the way, it is a pleasure, that we both found a way to agree in principles as our views of the things are not that different at all. ################################################# Am 11.02.2011 um 12:28 schrieb [email protected]: > Point taken. Everyone has different aptitudes. It isn't often politically > correct to say so, but there are some people I've met who seem to never > understand simple concepts of music, or mathematics, or even language. It > doesn't mean that they are dumb, just that those subjects are just not what > they > are good in. > > -William > > > In a message dated 2/11/2011 6:26:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hello William, > > I agree with what you have said, but oppose one thing: > > if there is no talent even the hardest work will not produce more > than a technical very good executor. > > Very good ear cannot be acquired, it must be there. > Rhythmical feeling can be cultivated but must be there before. > Anatomically good facts must exist, but must be cultivated too. > > A good perception of colors, also the colors of the sound must exist, > just needing perfection. If this distinction does not exist, it > cannot be built up by no means. You cannot teach a color-blind > to distinct mini changes in colors or color relations. > (Be relativated: it is possible within certain limitations.) > > Otherwise, your statement is correct. > There are no secrets with musicianship. > Recognizing high quality comes from experience & being > exposed to high quality. > > But this is valid not only for the arts, but should be valid for > all ways of life. > > #################################################### > Am 11.02.2011 um 12:10 schrieb [email protected]: > >> I agree with Hans on this. Musicianship is not some ethereal, magical > thing >> that is mysterious. It's something pretty definite, and something that > can >> be taught and learned. >> >> The biggest thing I don't like to hear regarding musicianship is the > idea >> that it somehow can't be taught. It sort of goes back to a general >> epistemology - can you figure something out, or are you going to stand > back and say >> "gee I don't know", or worse yet, invent an answer that isn't even true >> just so you stop looking? >> >> If we stopped at the ether theory of matter, or astrology, we would have > >> never figured out how things really worked. Thankfully we didn't. >> >> With enough hard work, you might very well be the next Radovan or ver >> Meulen. Then again, you might not - but it won't happen with a lot of > dedication >> and a lot of knowledge from those who know how to do it. I liken it to >> running a marathon. You may never be the fastest marathon runner in the > world. >> But, history is rife with people that trained properly of all shapes > and >> sizes and who ended up running many marathons under three hours. (But, >> nobody is going to fault you for not being the next Dennis Brain or > Paula >> Radcliffe if it doesn't make you happy.) >> >> -William >> >> >> In a message dated 2/11/2011 5:35:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Musicianship requires a lot: >> >> very good ear, perhaps acquired perfect pitch, perhaps >> superb rhythmic sense >> very good objective taste >> >> plus: listen, listen, listen >> plus: store the listened musical pieces well, so to find the data for >> reproduction purpose >> plus: musical understanding, acquired by reading scores & hear they >> realized to sound >> the same time, but no musical instrument touched & no record player of > any >> type turned on. >> >> plus: understanding the arts in general, developing a sense of > symmetry, >> progression >> & tension & relax; understanding colors & setting them into relation to > >> acoustical >> sensations (sounds). >> >> plus: performance technique, performance routine, performance > discipline >> >> plus: comprehensive knowledge about the music writing (composing) > system, >> harmonic >> system, bigger phrasing to the mini phrasing. >> >> plus: being exposed to music from the very early years of life >> >> A very good teach has all this & is able to transfer it to the students > & >> motivate them >> to follow his or her example, using their brain & phantasy. >> >> ##################################################################### >> Am 11.02.2011 um 10:25 schrieb Lawrence Yates: >> >>> I'm not sure you can teach musicianship but you can, to a point, teach > a >>> damn good imitation. I had a colleague who taught some very unmusical >> kids >>> to produce what sounded like very musical performances - they couldn't >> feel >>> anything, but they could follow instructions to the letter. Whether > that >>> ever turned into what I think we are calling musicianship, I don't > know. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Lawrence >>> >>> On 11 February 2011 09:14, Ralph Hall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Ralph R. Hall >>>> [email protected] >>>> Ralph R. Hall >>>> http://www.brasshausmusic.com >>>> >>>> I have just written two articles attempting to answer the question: >>>> 'Can you teach musicianship'? >>>> >>> -- >>> Lawrenceyates.co.uk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> post: [email protected] >>> unsubscribe or set options at >> https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at >> > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
