The interesting thing is when the very experienced iD specialist mapped a
building they did it by placing a dot in the four corners of the building
then the ways and tag were added very quickly by a short cut perhaps?

By placing the four corners first you could see clearly where they should
go.  I don't know how it was done but as an interim measure perhaps we
could teach this method of mapping buildings?

Cheerio John

On 20 November 2017 at 07:36, Stuart Ward <stuart.w...@bcs.org> wrote:

> Having spent considerable time fixing iD editor squares non-square
> buildings, with random shared nodes, connected to roads, and areas, getting
> a better first time result is so important.
>
> I pains where you come across a square that they have clearly spent quite
> a lot of time mapping all the ins and outs of buildings.
>
> Stuart
>
> --
> Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143 <+44%207782%20325143>
>
> On 19 November 2017 at 15:52, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
> blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool
>> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in
>> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish
>> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time
>> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers
>> increase their productivity and accuracy.
>>
>> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any
>> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great
>> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping
>> improve iD.
>>
>> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the
>> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed)
>> please contact me directly :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Blake
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said.
>> >
>> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived
>> and I
>> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the
>> wifi
>> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The
>> particular
>> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the
>> local
>> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took
>> place.
>> >
>> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins
>> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create
>> an
>> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building."
>> Upload,
>> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we
>> downloaded
>> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the
>> idea
>> > that they were mapping on a live database.
>> >
>> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with
>> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper
>> how
>> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show
>> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the
>> > confidence building side.
>> >
>> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for
>> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool
>> plugin
>> > wins hands down.
>> >
>> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more
>> > mini-maperthons?
>> >
>> > Cheerio John
>> >
>> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07, <ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here
>> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I
>> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own
>> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and
>> leading, on
>> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people
>> >> involved.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is
>> preferred,
>> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that
>> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops
>> it is
>> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a
>> large
>> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the
>> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM
>> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with
>> iD
>> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then
>> deal
>> >> with any questions they have during the session.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed
>> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much
>> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I
>> prefer to
>> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are
>> comfortable
>> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on
>> their own
>> >> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance.
>> >> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount
>> to
>> >> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good
>> >> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more
>> >> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does
>> show more
>> >> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper
>> how
>> >> to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their
>> >> confidence.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the
>> >> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can
>> get
>> >> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill
>> with
>> >> the various tools on JOSM.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running
>> at
>> >> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the
>> individual as
>> >> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away
>> with
>> >> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going
>> to be a
>> >> Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed
>> date on
>> >> their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the
>> >> email addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future
>> >> Mapathons with an Eventbrite invitation.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the
>> >> trainers at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have
>> stayed
>> >> and progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping
>> >> groups at their universities. Also at universities and corporate
>> offices
>> >> where we have run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping
>> Parties and
>> >> Mapathons of their own.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of
>> evolving
>> >> the London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it
>> >> tailed of quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning
>> mappers
>> >> the option of going onto JOSM, this helped the retention of mappers
>> and now
>> >> we also have a MidMonth Mapathon for experienced JOSM mappers to get
>> >> involved in more advanced work.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> To sum up, yes JOSM is desirable in getting good building mapping and
>> very
>> >> definitely when the mapping moves into dense city centres or slums
>> where
>> >> they are built butting up against each other. But then for people with
>> no
>> >> previous map experience the learning curve is very steep, having to
>> learn
>> >> about OSM, the Tasking Manager, the Editor, read Satellite Imagery,
>> drawing
>> >> the features and also tagging correctly so reducing this slightly by
>> using
>> >> the iD Editor to start with does make sense when you have a limited
>> time to
>> >> get them started.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you have any questions regarding getting started or running your
>> >> Mapathon feel free to email me and I will try to help where I can.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hope some of this might be useful.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ralph
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Blake Girardot
>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>>
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