>One other thing is when I start with a new task, sometimes a lot of work is already done but also sometimes very poorly, buildings not squared or misplaced. I wonder, should I correct that or leave it for the validators?
Interesting question I think its like hoping the fairies will come in the night and fix everything up. >I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers. Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is best practice anyway. I think we are missing something here. I do a fair amount of validation. Highways untagged I don't have a problem with but when it comes to correcting buildings I do have a problem. It is faster to delete and remap than to correct a badly mapped building but in OSM the official preference is to correct what is there to preserve the history. I'll tag buildings but even if they are badly drawn I will very very rarely correct them. It's too much hassle. I tend to avoid building projects when validating. I don't think it is OK to expect validators to spend more time cleaning up than it takes to map. I don't know where Dale's magic pool of validators are but I think we are all agreed we don't have enough validation done so are they bogged down correcting buildings? Best practice to correct work rather than do it right in the first place? This goes against every best practice I've ever seen in the real world. Oh and Dale do note that the maperthon I attended 75% were not familiar with JOSM but the quality of the work they produced was excellent in JOSM with the building_tool plugin. Were they some sot of strange group? I certainly didn't preselect them. They were brand new mappers and they worked happily in JOSM. The amount of support they got might have been higher than at a large maperthon with fewer experienced mapper per newbie and there are good reasons for using iD which Ralph has covered but I differ from your opinion, in mine iD is not absolutely the best tool for new mappers and I have demonstrated that. Cheerio John On 20 November 2017 at 10:34, Dale Kunce <dale.ku...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey all, > I agree with Blake iD is absolutely the best tool to use for new mappers. > Yes is requires a bit more clean up from a validator but that is ok, and is > best practice anyway. > > The iD team is working on the building tool but doesn't have a release > date. Having this tool would be a game changer and would be the biggest > improvement to beginning mappers. > > Over the past year Missing Maps and is partners have added over 30k > mappers. We are constantly looking for ways to improve mapathons and the > tools we use however, JOSM is not practical for a variety of reasons for > mapathons of any significant size. The London group has integrated it the > best with a dedicated small group everytime to learning JOSM. > > The material on learnosm originally came from the Missing Maps host page ( > http://www.missingmaps.org/host/). > > Dale > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM < > blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> A lot of this would be addressed if iD had a building mapping tool >> like JOSM does. I am going to restart the effort to get that added in >> to iD, I have some new ideas for how we might be able to accomplish >> it. I think it would save literally hundreds of hours volunteer time >> fixing buildings that are mapped by new mappers and help new mappers >> increase their productivity and accuracy. >> >> iD is by far the more approachable editor for OSM, it runs on any >> desktop or laptop with zero installation issues and has a great >> built-in tutorial, so I think we would be well served by helping >> improve iD. >> >> If there are any JS wizards out there who want to help complete the >> building tool for iD (it is already started, just not completed) >> please contact me directly :) >> >> Cheers, >> Blake >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:40 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > and I totally concur with what Ralph has said. >> > >> > We asked people who were attending to install JAVA before they arrived >> and I >> > had josm-tested.jar available on a DVD to minimise the stress on the >> wifi >> > network. I had a USB DVD device with me and a bag of mice. The >> particular >> > maperthon I was at was a one off affair but we had someone from the >> local >> > OSM group mention how to find the monthly meetings where mapping took >> place. >> > >> > Note I had two machines available that had JAVA, JOSM with the plugins >> > already installed so it was just a matter of "come in, sit down, create >> an >> > account, wiggle the mouse now you've mapped your first building." >> Upload, >> > then we got them to install JOSM on their own machine and when we >> downloaded >> > the tile again their previous mapping was there which reinforced the >> idea >> > that they were mapping on a live database. >> > >> > It could be just me but my feeling was we got a bit more engagement with >> > JOSM as they could see the underlying tags and having shown one mapper >> how >> > to join up two rectangles for an L shaped building I asked them to show >> > another mapper how to do it when they wanted to know which helps on the >> > confidence building side. >> > >> > For highways there is less to choose between the two editors but for >> > buildings certainly for accuracy currently JOSM and the building_tool >> plugin >> > wins hands down. >> > >> > I think the large maperthons have their place but perhaps we need more >> > mini-maperthons? >> > >> > Cheerio John >> > >> > On 19 November 2017 at 03:07, <ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> A useful guide to running your Mapathon can be found here >> >> http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/mapathon/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> There is no hard and fast rule to running a successful Mapathon. As I >> >> point out, each Mapathon will evolve at it’s own pace and in it’s own >> >> direction dependent the expertise of the people organizing and >> leading, on >> >> the people attending, the facilities available and the number of people >> >> involved. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> As to the choice of Editor used, I agree with John that JOSM is >> preferred, >> >> unfortunately that choice is not always available. We have found that >> >> dealing with new mappers using school or corporate computers/laptops >> it is >> >> not always permitted to download other programmes, or if you have a >> large >> >> group uploading/downloading at the same time can cause problems for the >> >> available WiFi, and with one really large group we overloaded the OSM >> >> server. So our choice is to start the large group of new mappers with >> iD >> >> Editor so that we can get them mapping as quickly as we can and then >> deal >> >> with any questions they have during the session. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I do not count any success on how many squares have been completed >> >> although it is encouraging to the group to be shown at the end how much >> >> their contribution has advanced the project they are working on. I >> prefer to >> >> concentrate on getting the mappers to a stage where they are >> comfortable >> >> with their mapping and confident enough to try mapping further on >> their own >> >> at home and hopefully interested enough to return for further guidance. >> >> Going around the room and looking at what they are doing is paramount >> to >> >> this success. Telling them that they have got it and their work is good >> >> gives them the assurance they need to continue and even become more >> >> adventurous, so John is correct in saying that the one-to-one does >> show more >> >> promise and achieve better mapping. Even stopping to show a new mapper >> how >> >> to improve and correct their work has a very positive effect on their >> >> confidence. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Working with small groups definitely is an advantage because of the >> >> personal attention they can get, but will be more effective it you can >> get >> >> them meeting on a regular basis to build on their experience and skill >> with >> >> the various tools on JOSM. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At the London monthly Mapathon we have three training sections running >> at >> >> the same time … iD , JOSM and Validating. And it is up to the >> individual as >> >> to which session they sign up to. If they want to start straight away >> with >> >> JOSM they are welcome to do so. The mappers know that there is going >> to be a >> >> Mapathon on the first Tuesday of every month so it becomes a fixed >> date on >> >> their calendar which does help with returning mappers. We also keep the >> >> email addresses of attendees and they will get invited back to future >> >> Mapathons with an Eventbrite invitation. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> As a guide to success I would point you to the fact that most of the >> >> trainers at the London Mapathons started off as newcomers and have >> stayed >> >> and progressed, a number of attendees have gone on to start up mapping >> >> groups at their universities. Also at universities and corporate >> offices >> >> where we have run Mapathons they have started up inhouse Mapping >> Parties and >> >> Mapathons of their own. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Martin Dittus gave us some statistics early on in the process of >> evolving >> >> the London Mapathons which showed approximately 30% return rate but it >> >> tailed of quickly, which is why we decided to offer the returning >> mappers >> >> the option of going onto JOSM, this helped the retention of mappers >> and now >> >> we also have a MidMonth Mapathon for experienced JOSM mappers to get >> >> involved in more advanced work. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To sum up, yes JOSM is desirable in getting good building mapping and >> very >> >> definitely when the mapping moves into dense city centres or slums >> where >> >> they are built butting up against each other. But then for people with >> no >> >> previous map experience the learning curve is very steep, having to >> learn >> >> about OSM, the Tasking Manager, the Editor, read Satellite Imagery, >> drawing >> >> the features and also tagging correctly so reducing this slightly by >> using >> >> the iD Editor to start with does make sense when you have a limited >> time to >> >> get them started. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> If you have any questions regarding getting started or running your >> >> Mapathon feel free to email me and I will try to help where I can. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hope some of this might be useful. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ralph >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> HOT mailing list >> >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > HOT mailing list >> > HOT@openstreetmap.org >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> Blake Girardot >> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team >> >> _______________________________________________ >> HOT mailing list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> > > > > -- > sent from my mobile device > > Dale Kunce > http://normalhabit.com > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > >
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