On 21 Apr 2010 08:22:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: >Who cares whether the universities are requiring COBOL or not? There are >plenty of places and ways to learn it, and any Programmer worth employing >should be able to pick it up relatively easy. They may not be as good as a >seasoned programmer, but you can't expect a college graduate to perform at the >same level as someone with work experience, no matter the language. > >Universities are for teaching conceptual processes, how to learn and grasp the >fundamentals of how programming works, not how to use a specific language, >that's what a trade school, or specific class is for.
One of the interesting problems is that COBOL differs significantly in concept from the FORTRAN/Algol/C/C++ languages in that it is fixed length field and array oriented with differentiation between decimal and binary. The others are string and array oriented. COBOL is related more to the accounting department while the others to the mathematics department which has neither liked nor accepted the premises of COBOL. As someone who was a systems programmer and an applications programmer using COBOL and related proprietary languages (primarily DYL280 with some Easytrieve) I have my doubts about the long term survival of both COBOL and the mainframe, in part due to bad decisions. It is far cheaper to develop things on other platforms. One person who had worked extensively in COBOL including CICS is now using Microsoft tools and C# because he can develop things faster with less effort and even the free versions of the Microsoft tools are extremely capable. Also for the Windows and Unix environment, a developer has to make certain that the entity buy the COBOL package also has bought the run times which is not a problem with C/C++/C#. > >If a recent (or future) grad only finds jobs advertising for COBOL >programmers, they need to learn it to compete, the same goes for other >languages. If a company (or government) needs applications supported using a >*relatively* less used language that they have trouble finding proper skills >for, they increase the pay offered, and the people (and skills) will come. It >might be painful, but it is not impossible by any stretch of the imagination. > >Frank Finley > > >-----Original Message----- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >Bob goolsby >Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:50 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: COBOL - no longer being taught - is a problem > >Mornin' -- > >Well the first thing I found on a search for 'COBOL School' was >http://www.askedu.net/training_topic/k_COBOL_1.htm which asked me to >further clarify my self (and incidentally open me up to being spammed >by the loverly children, I expect). But, scroll down to the bottom of >the page and there is a block of links under the heading "Find COBOL >courses and training in countries:", and both Canada and the USA are >included. A bit of exploration shows a lot of XXX (Javva and .Net, >mostly) for the COBOL programmer, no surprise; but I also see Intro >and Advanced COBOL courses advertised along with a couple of DB2 Using >COBOL classes. Most of these are online education, but hey. > >As to what you can do to improve the situation, wander off to your >local Higher Education Venue and your local community college and/or >trade school. Fund a scholarship or two; endow a Chair in the CS >department (Associate Professor of Dead Computer Linguistics); get >involved now. It is already later than you think. > >By the way, how old is your Systems Programming team....? > >On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Mike Baldwin <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi IBM-MAIN, >> >> Yesterday Canada's well-respected auditor-general released a report >> complaining that aging government computer systems could halt delivery of >> basic services. So we're bracing for the usual criticism of 'old mainframe' >> systems. Today there are some specifics, including COBOL: >> >> "Auditor-General reports that updating systems could cost billions >> ... >> Ms. Fraser said the problem is so bad that some key programs may shut down. >> ... >> Meanwhile, Canada's National Immigration Program runs on a programming >> language - COBOL - that is no longer being taught and the staff that >> understand it are retiring. The program also uses a database system called >> DMSII that dates back to the 1970s...." >> >> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/government-wont-let-aging-computers-halt-basic-services-day-says/article1540750/ >> >> Maybe you guys and girls have some ideas that would save us taxpayers from >> paying rising interest on more billions borrowed. >> >> Regards, >> Mike Baldwin >> Cartagena Software Limited >> Markham, Ontario, Canada >> http://www.cartagena.com >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to [email protected] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
