Some submit jobs, and I've often scavenged the generated JCL to use as a basis for other jobs. But I'm always prepared to enter the JCL and input myself when appropriate. A good servant but a poor master.
Same for CLI versus GUI; I find a GUI convenient for a lot of tasks but write scripts for the heavy lifting. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom Brennan [t...@tombrennansoftware.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 2:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to speed on a new environment? I forgot what system it was (maybe a panel system on AIX?) where you can run through the panel selections checking various options, but with the ability to show the final command issued. I'm pretty sure things like RACF, RMM, and some other ISPF dialogs just issue TSO commands under the covers, but is there an option to see those commands? On 2/21/2023 9:47 AM, David Spiegel wrote: > Hi Doug, > I consider relying on ISPF Panels *solely* negative, especially when > SysProgs should learn the Command Line, in particular for RACF Commands. > This is a sign of laziness. > I've also been in jobs where I maintained/added to ISPF Applications to > e.g. create a z/OS Clone, where the user fills in the "from" and "to" > DASD addresses and the ISPF application does the rest. > BTW, I am referring negatively to people who rely upon ISPF Panels *and* > have never heard of CBT. > There is no need to get offended. > > Regards, > David > > On 2023-02-21 12:13, Doug wrote: >> So David, you consider using ISPF panels a net negative? I used to >> write dialogs for anything repetitive that I or anyone else had to do. >> Never thought it was bad if "people in charge are by-the-book >> mentality and I can imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything from >> RACF to SMP/e." Especially when I was the person in charge. And I knew >> what the CBT tape was and is.... >> >> Doug Fuerst >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "David Spiegel" <00000468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu >> Sent: 21-Feb-23 6:09:15 >> Subject: Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to >> speed on a new environment? >> >>> Hi Brian, >>> You said: "...so why would they question my use of anything I need in >>> order to perform my job efficiently? ..." >>> My answer is that the people in charge are by-the-book mentality and >>> I can imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything from RACF to SMP/e. >>> (At one of my jobs, the MVS Team Lead said : "CBT??? ... never heard >>> of it" (This guy has been an MVS Systems Programmer for more than 30 >>> years.)) >>> These same people eschew creativity in any form, because, they're >>> scared due to ignorance. >>> >>> Regards, >>> David >>> >>> On 2023-02-21 00:31, Brian Westerman wrote: >>>> I think that's a pretty invalid point. I don't see anyone >>>> questioning how to write an exit or install a new system, or use >>>> SMPe, so why would they question my use of anything I need in order >>>> to perform my job efficiently? >>>> >>>> Maybe it's just that they all assume I must know what I'm doing. If >>>> they didn't believe that, I doubt they would have asked me to do the >>>> project. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
