Absolutely agree. Just not of the PC-ss / SRB-to-other-AS / complete-and-sophisticated-error-recovery kind of code, that I remember seeing or hearing about.
Not that it couldn't already be there and I just missed seeing it. Peter -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 5:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces] While I won't claim that all of the code in the CBT tape is good, there is certainly code there worth reading. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu> on behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 <peter.far...@broadridge.com> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 5:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces] And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers to see how to do it the right way? If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that. Not the easiest place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible. Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even examples of how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your own. ". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole 'nother can of worms. Back in the day places like universities in some cities offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals. I took a two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock manager was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting material to learn. Of course, all that is ancient history now. No university or education center offers anything like that anymore. Much more profitable to offer certification courses in Windows. Peter -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access spaces] There are some good SHARE presentations on some of these techniques. Unfortunately for you, I'm too lazy to search for them. However, and this is important, anything and everything you do that uses authorized services entails exposure of system integrity. It behooves any organization to ensure that its personnel writing such code are well-trained and thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works, is designed, and what those exposures are. It's also perfectly clear many organizations, including many ISVs, do not. This kind of knowledge and experience doesn't come from blindly following two-sentence replies from who knows who on IBM-MAIN (I know who's who on IBM-MAIN, as many of us do, but how would a newbie know?). You could easily read a paper on the latest techniques in brain surgery. I'd be skeptical about your ability to do it, unless you had the prior training and experience it requires. The point is, you need that training and experience, and you also need to be able to train and study on your own, as there's very little in the way of formal education in our field. Neither IBM-MAIN nor StackOverflow are a substitute for the fundamentals. sas On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:56 PM David W Noon < 0000013a910fd252-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +0000, Farley, Peter X23353 > (peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated > system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended > method for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in > <f6dfa267dd2a448b881a732dbbcc3...@clipswexmaa4.bsg.ad.adp.com>): > > > Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other > > thoughtful and helpful responders in this email chain, but it still > > rankles me that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM and > > not at CBT) for programmers to review that show exactly how to set > > up and use "SRB to the other address space and PC-ss back to the > > requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated > > system-level application coding technique. > > > > Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to > > which only IBM and (some) ISV's have access? Good examples that > > show how to "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of > > dangerous > experimentation. > > "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT a > > good thing. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
