On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:22 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you? > > do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment > process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed > it to you in a way you understand > > the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm > or al-qaeda for that matter. > I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and pls gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! > > they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i > hope some of them might be from the community as well thats all the > fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision > maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in > to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss > the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than > shooting in the dark > When i am shooting into ilug tvm, i dont think its shooting into dark. there could be some men interestd. > > there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/ > software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing > which is to run the governance related applications(accounting, > inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will > be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you > as well) expense. > yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy cows.I have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am supportng ur view) > further you claim that business model of linux based companies is > based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence > there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for > their commercial purpose. yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a very transparent way ? > by the same logic the other OS supposedly > user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers. > first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy > expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance > and support fees annually > > i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being > same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this > includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity > tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year > excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7 > enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of > winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have > to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for > a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version > allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares. > now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware > platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to > cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out > additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else > you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you > deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform. > this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from > win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to > read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now. > Sure, admirable wealth of data. this would certainly help. > > now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the > commonsense and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s > money aka your money > Thanks for the statement. This would have given earlier, but now it came with a wealth of statistics. > > what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i > play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard > earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the > sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want > to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense. > Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. No complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it. > > one point to add there is already a working linux based solution > deployed in public educational system called the i...@school GNU/Linux > if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as > far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine > till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough > opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that > platform. The student thingy described above was the after-schooling problem. They do have more than enough to explore, and the freedom to take it to any height. good. They remain in FOSS or migrate to some other platform? http://www.freelists.org/archive/schoolgnu/04-2010 is the community i think. i has 4 posts for the last month, only one technical issue. either its not working, or its near perfect. Akshaya system is another, which practically still runs mostly on proprietory system. the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of > hardware to ensure optimal access for students, lack of content in > local languages which i should say is being addressed. > > now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you, > fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the > option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly > about the amount of salt in the sambar etc > game over for me :( jaaabba! some MOAB fell on my head! > > bipin > danku! that was constructive. > ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-) > > > On May 17, 7:50 pm, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:53 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a > > > enterprise/organization. > > > > true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its > > imprint. > > > > > these decisions are result of deliberation > > > within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses > > > decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its > > > financial condition etc. > > > > The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally > structured > > enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some responders > in > > the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited > performers > > are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies > match] > > The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded members > > should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it as > "It > > would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured enterprise? > > > > Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing for > > it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a > feild > > they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who > would > > like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels are > free > > to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL. > > > > Some elaboration which most of us doesnt need, but i enjoy story telling: > we > > have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an all > > purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has > > limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle > > cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations are > > made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting > > priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities' is understood as some > > enforcement? > > > > You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post? > > > > heck you yourself has stated that govt is > > > > > going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose > > > > Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> " > why > > does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i am > some > > non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in > FLOSS? > > being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with the > > adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic. > > > > Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you 'krimi', > you > > F***" and i stops it :) not. > > > > which means that > > > > > this solution is optimized for their purpose, > > > > Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The usual > > election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working? > > > > > i repeat their purpose. > > > these might include customizing the os specific to hardware/software > > > set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to do > > > official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. playing > > > games. > > > > Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games are > > not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them. > > Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you > have > > succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may percieve > as > > MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a strategic > > game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get. > > > > To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are > shared > > for watching news streams and working research/educational simulators. > > We (who ever it is) doesnt use it for creative purpose means we have set > our > > priorities adorably like that. > > > > > still if you are convinced about role of linux in an enterprise just > > > check out the business model and the client list of companies such as > > > Redhat, Canonical, IBM etc > > > > So you have made a refernce to a working model. I will certainly try > reading > > on that. I would try to understand their functional objective of > providing > > service in IT sector would match the objectives of end user in Govt > sector > > of Kerala. > > > > > > > > > this is how redhat/canonical makes money. they don't sell the os. > > > instead they charge for the customer support/service. i.e tailoring > > > the os to meet the customers need. > > > > Converse of theory: The more stupid the base distribution is, the more > money > > they get. (Reading in between lines). Let their buisiness model work. for > > any sake. > > > > Fact: IF a FLOSS company with buisiness ethics propose that 'they rectify > > the problems of ITC sector of Govt of Kerala' based on FLOSS, they can > win > > it without even 1% of the money M$ spent on Malyasian bureaucracy*. (*as > > read on internet). > > > > > > > > > earlier you were crying foul about lack of support in linux. if you > > > want good customer support just pay for it or else be content with the > > > community support with distros which i should say is doing a fine job > > > under the circumstances > > > > > Remember "there is nothing as free lunch". > > > > If the hotel owner thinks ditributing food for free cures his only > daughters > > disease, the 'customer' gets free lunch. Isolate the customer from the > > Hotel owner in discussing this system. The customer gets lunch absolutely > > free. When there are a lot of such hotel owners in the society, and they > > declare lunch is available for free(or is known), the customer gets lunch > > free 365 & 1/4. > > > > The kerala farmer survey on why individuals TUX, may be put to scrutiny > to > > get an answer. > > I am not comparing the ideology behind FLOSS to the above stupid reason. > Its > > an easy grab and a comparitively simple system. We have a reason, > Humanity. > > And the tendency to fight againsit what is percieved as anti human. > > > > Forgive me, there is lot of noise, either you can deal with core issues > or > > pour some aviation turbine fluid into the noise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 17, 4:43 pm, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:52 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in > > > > > educational > > > > > system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user > > > > > choose' > > > > > > > ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they > have > > > > > chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. > > > > > > @Bipin, Unfortunately, I cant imagine user 'Govt' sitting in front of > a > > > boot > > > > screen. I can think about end users only.Govt is the decision maker > and > > > > enforcer. > > > > Could it be very wrong, if somebody says Govt asked a group of > people, > > > and > > > > they made this mistake of instructing govt to use the specific distro > in > > > > administrative wings? Consider the frequency of breakdowns as evident > in > > > > this mailing list itself. Some end users are not comfortable with > current > > > > framework to support FLOSS. What would be the recommendation if Govt > > > gives > > > > the people an opportunity regarding improvement of FLOSS and support > > > frame > > > > work? This opportunity is always there. > > > > > > > On May 17, 11:52 am, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Problem: > > > > > > 1)Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in > > > educational > > > > > > system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the > user > > > > > choose' > > > > > > [Fact, context] > > > > > > 2)Software providers in the field of GNU/Linux does not create it > to > > > be > > > > > > compatible with every distro/OS version[Fact] > > > > > > 3)Additional softwares/updates need to be installed for specific > > > > > > purposes,[Fact] > > > > > > 4)Current GNU/Linux systems has a high risk of breaking without > > > warning, > > > > > > when softwares profile is changed[Fact] > > > > > > 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does > not > > > have > > > > > > enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively > > > > > low-perfoming > > > > > > professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, > main > > > > > > context of thread] > > > > > > > > **apart from server side/embedded/mobile technologies in case of > (5) > > > > > > > > ............................... > > > > > > As a key player in FOSS in Kerala, what would be FSUG-TVM > priority? > > > > > (please > > > > > > select more than one if necessary) > > > > > > 6)Give thrust on supporting the Distro and version the state has > > > > > > adopted(ubuntu), as specifically biased support could help boost > its > > > > > spread. > > > > > > 7)Answer every possible querry in FLOSS, based on individual > > > MailingList > > > > > > members interest. > > > > > > 8)Support any other distro [one or more] : schoolOS, Mint,debian, > > > RedHat, > > > > > > Fedora, Slackware, ArtistX, Novell, .. ..n > > > > > > 9)Strongly plead the govt for investing heavily in developing > > > > > professional > > > > > > GNU/Linux and compatible software systems(mainly owing to reason > 5) > > > > > > 10)Strongly plead the Govt to support heavily in user-developer > > > > > > communication systems, as it is necessary to rectify break > downs(read > > > > > along > > > > > > with 4) > > > > > > 11)Get into long term contract ( financial aid ) with Mac / Win > owing > > > to > > > > > > thier international success in providing professional software > > > > > compatibility > > > > > > :D > > > > > > 12)Get into long term contract with professional application > > > providers > > > > > > (Adobe, Avid, Apple... etc) owing to thier international success > in > > > > > > providing professional software compatibility > > > > > > 13)Get into long term contract with FOSS software providers as > this > > > would > > > > > > explode possibilities in near future, eventhough not right now. > > > > > > 11)something else. > > > > > > > > .................................. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > #////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > > > > # > > > > > > "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" > > > > > > Leonardo da Vinci > > > > > > #////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > > > > # > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > "Freedom is the only law". > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > -- > "Freedom is the only law". > "Freedom Unplugged" > http://www.ilug-tvm.org > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "ilug-tvm" group. > To control your subscription visit > http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > > For details visit the google group page: > http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en > -- #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo da Vinci #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# -- "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To control your subscription visit http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For details visit the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
