On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:10 AM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in > > educational > > system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user > > choose' > > ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have > > chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. " > > its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am > referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement > in quotes don't require further explanation > > > "I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( > since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. > and pls > gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! " > > > > "yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy > cows.I > have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am > supportng ur view" > > really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like > to hear and see what you like to see. This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the similiar performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are highly ranked among professionals. > > this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted > of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational > system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the > schools) > > now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context, > will you please explain. Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention? Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know instances where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still there, and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy counts. > now regarding use of macs and other expensive > stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work, > have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just > to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein > structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no > other platform cuts it. Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to see some discussion on it. > you want us wait for the day when such > technology becomes available in other affordable platforms? > This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into the dark space you called? You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux. > > i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are > made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and > financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis. > FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most outstanding innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch" And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where ever possible, when making decisions. > > you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of > an organization. Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed? We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would like development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I asked which ones would be the better ones. > However open source community can help the government > in taking intelligent decision while deploying an ICT infrastructure. > > > "yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux > customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in > a > very transparent way ? " > > now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays. > rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on > the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane > man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts > regarding your motives. What is the complete argument? the first one you made reagrding government, looked like "everything except funding for hardware is ok". I dont take it that way, as i personally saw the problems. My cousine runs an Akshaya center, i used to attend classes arranged for Linux instead of him and this class was shared by school teachers. I know the magnitude of problems that came out in that class. Regarding my motive, I already said it wud be good to give more priority to increasing userfriendliness.It helps spread, spreading helps users. I dont exactly know the state of Linux,( My personal understanding is that linux desktop is much more prone to break down, when the software profile is changed. Its a linear cycle of breaks and make-agains, once you decide to change software profile. I think no professional would afford it, unless he has time for it,and fully capable of the repair workflow in all its ways. anyway why should government should tackle > such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in > the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to > commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and fancies of > a person. I shoud keep silence on what i percieve as imperfectness? Law is not static, its ammended based on peoples cry. discussing it in forum is bad? > do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such > as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost > their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those > proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its > innocent until proven guilty. RedHat sells distro. And I never said RedHat. why did you specifically say RedHat? I stated a possibility.I have the right to. 'Standard products which are not servicable even by skilled user' is a situation in field. At times, it is restricted to company service personnal, which can be clearly shown to be under extra-profit motive. Consider, the problem presented by Vyshak yesterday. Ubuntu doesnot provide a default root password. there is only a complicated way of achieving it. Is it a standard practice or a substandard practice?Linux Mint doesnt behave this way, and it doest suffer anything worse. opinions may vary. > > > "Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. > No > complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it." > > now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring > me in this context > Holy cow / sacred cow is an expression used against anything which is immune to criticism. Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances where there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those involving field release of GMO food] > put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship. > this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it > and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my > prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not > welcome in that matter in a public forum. When did i say something like that man?Off course I know how difficult it is! You have any conscience problem with how you spend your salary, you deal with it. Ask any reader of this thread wether any of communication contained any indication on something like this. Why did you put that on my head? I have never felt this stressed,reading the ML. Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. Shud I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in a reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above normal moral value. i am aware of the fact that > fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing > something constructive to society and to that extend i will do > whatever i can. we are sure you will. > however my personal life is not hostage to that fact > an hardware/software solution brought using taxpayers money by the > government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose > alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if > they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary. > > I think the complexity is humorously used against my text going crippled? > on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy > statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense > out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some > journal articles > > Yeah. I am not continuing any discussion associated with thoughts related to FOSS, especially in any open forums. I am not putting this on you, you may not answer this particular sentance. Just that I think I am doing more harm than good. On May 17, 11:24 pm, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:22 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you? > > > > > do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment > > > process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon feed > > > it to you in a way you understand > > > > > the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or ilug-tvm > > > or al-qaeda for that matter. > > > > I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( > > since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. and > pls > > gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! > > > > > > > > > they have their needs and might have consulted with peoples, and i > > > hope some of them might be from the community as well thats all the > > > fsug has to do with that decision and since its the govt decision > > > maybe you can file an RTI to know about actual variables they took in > > > to their decision making process and then come back here and discuss > > > the merits and demerits of the aforesaid solution, rather than > > > shooting in the dark > > > > When i am shooting into ilug tvm, i dont think its shooting into dark. > there > > could be some men interestd. > > > > > > > > > there is something you have to get into thick skull, the hardware/ > > > software procured by the government is supposed to do only one thing > > > which is to run the governance related applications(accounting, > > > inventory etc) and not any other frivolous stuff. the employees will > > > be trained to run those apps at the taxpayer's(which btw includes you > > > as well) expense. > > > > yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research laboratories.Holy > cows.I > > have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am > > supportng ur view) > > > > > further you claim that business model of linux based companies is > > > based on a flawed premise that, Linux is user-unfriendly and hence > > > there is requirement of customer support which they are milking for > > > their commercial purpose. > > > > yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make Linux > > customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in a > > very transparent way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > by the same logic the other OS supposedly > > > user friendly options are then literally ripping off the customers. > > > first you have to pay exorbitant amounts as licensing, deploy > > > expensive hardware and pay substantial amounts of money as maintenance > > > and support fees annually > > > > > i will give you an example, assuming the hardware cost being > > > same(maybe Rs. 00 for arguments sake) the cost of deploying SLED (this > > > includes OS, basic set of office applications and other productivity > > > tools, security framework etc) was around 7500 Rs per pc per year > > > excluding hardware, now if you are to deploy MS Vista/win7 > > > enterprise(under MS EULA one cannot install any other version of > > > winOSs in commercial platform i.e anything above 25 pcs) you will have > > > to pay around the same amount for the OS alone, add to that price for > > > a enterprise wide security solution(same as earlier no retail version > > > allowed in commercial platforms) along with other required softwares. > > > now to use OSX you have to buy an relatively expensive hardware > > > platform just to have access to it. further if MS/apple decide to > > > cease support for a particular os version you will have shell out > > > additional amounts in terms of upgrading the hardware alone or else > > > you will be stuck with outdated and EOL solution. further the apps you > > > deployed on them might not be compatible to the newer os platform. > > > this is one the main reasons many organization are not upgrading from > > > win xp to vista/win7 despite MS pleas/ads. It is educating for you to > > > read about IE6 debacle that many organization face now. > > > > Sure, admirable wealth of data. this would certainly help. > > > > > > > > > now leave aside your personal tastes, idiosyncrasies and use the > > > commonsense and tell us which is better investment of taxpayer’s > > > money aka your money > > > > Thanks for the statement. This would have given earlier, but now it came > > with a wealth of statistics. > > > > > > > > > what i do with my hardware/software is my concern alone, whether i > > > play fps, rts or watch porn because i have paid for it with my hard > > > earned money. the govt/people's money is put into ICT for doing the > > > sole task of governance and nothing else as stated earlier. you want > > > to be creative buy your stuff, don't do it on common man's expense. > > > > Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in chunks. > No > > complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it. > > > > > > > > > one point to add there is already a working linux based solution > > > deployed in public educational system called the i...@school GNU/Linux > > > if you haven't heard of. it is basically a customized debian distro as > > > far as i can gather from my tinkering with it. and it is working fine > > > till date with help of community support i might add. there is enough > > > opportunity for students to explore their creativity etc in that > > > platform. > > > > The student thingy described above was the after-schooling problem. They > do > > have more than enough to explore, and the freedom to take it to any > height. > > good. They remain in FOSS or migrate to some other platform? > http://www.freelists.org/archive/schoolgnu/04-2010is the community i > think. > > i has 4 posts for the last month, only one technical issue. either its > not > > working, or its near perfect. > > > > Akshaya system is another, which practically still runs mostly on > > proprietory system. > > > > the only drawback i see are the luck of sufficient amount of> hardware to > ensure optimal access for students, lack of content in > > > local languages which i should say is being addressed. > > > > > now to the last part. if someone is providing free good lunch for you, > > > fine go and have it by all means. If you don’t like it you have the > > > option of not going again, there is no compulsion. you cant be prickly > > > about the amount of salt in the sambar etc > > > > game over for me :( jaaabba! some MOAB fell on my head! > > > > > > > > > bipin > > > > danku! that was constructive. > > > > > > > > > ps: posted from my win7/ubuntu lucid laptop :-) > > > > > On May 17, 7:50 pm, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:53 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > look you are going overboard over decisions that normal in a > > > > > enterprise/organization. > > > > > > true.But isnt it like: FSUG is an organisation, and ilug-tvm is its > > > > imprint. > > > > > > > these decisions are result of deliberation > > > > > within the organization, and outside advisors. further theses > > > > > decisions are also influenced by the organizational need, its > > > > > financial condition etc. > > > > > > The affore said parameters are variables. What if a functionally > > > structured > > > > enterprise is born out of FSUG?(not a power hierarchy) Some > responders > > > in > > > > the list are working admirably on external funds. [and commited > > > performers > > > > are already being absorbed by enterprises where ever their policies > > > match] > > > > The meaning of your phrase could be read as "FSUG/its like-minded > members > > > > should never form an enterprise". Why dont you make your construct it > as > > > "It > > > > would have been great if FSUG could have formed a structured > enterprise? > > > > > > Imagine all the active men gets paid (if and only if they are willing > for > > > > it) for the noble purpose, and they are able to invest time 24x7 in a > > > feild > > > > they like to work? Let the men get paid for assigned duty, those who > > > would > > > > like to work on their on choices be absorbed as freelancers. Rebels > are > > > free > > > > to do anything. For it is GNU/GPL. > > > > > > Some elaboration which most of us doesnt need, but i enjoy story > telling: > > > we > > > > have various classes of vehicles on the road. Trying to bring out an > all > > > > purpose vehicle as a unified solution is impractical/has > > > > limitations.(imagine a hybrid fuel macjine with train cum bicycle > > > > cpabilities). But too much diversity could do harm when legislations > are > > > > made without bounding limits(prooved in history). Here is why setting > > > > priorities becomes important. I think 'priorities' is understood as > some > > > > enforcement? > > > > > > You are interpreted as supporting (7) of the first post? > > > > > > heck you yourself has stated that govt is > > > > > > > going ahead with a custom solution for their purpose > > > > > > Heck = "way of referring to Hell <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell> > " > > > why > > > > does men get this much adrenaline rush on my comments? is it that i > am > > > some > > > > non-techie? (non-touchee :) ).Non-techies cant stand for anything in > > > FLOSS? > > > > being at CCMB you are aware how much tissue you are endangering with > the > > > > adrenaline rush. Forget that its from me, just consider the logic. > > > > > > Tell me out right that "we dont want to hear this from you, you > 'krimi', > > > you > > > > F***" and i stops it :) not. > > > > > > which means that > > > > > > > this solution is optimized for their purpose, > > > > > > Question: A solution is proposed, without proper allocation. The > usual > > > > election propagande way. agree/disagree? is it working? > > > > > > > i repeat their purpose. > > > > > these might include customizing the os specific to > hardware/software > > > > > set to get their job done. for chrissake these systems are meant to > do > > > > > official job and not for ordinary use such as watching movies. > playing > > > > > games. > > > > > > Bad bad attitude of techies that watching movies and playing games > are > > > > not_for_the_most_adorable_of_them. > > > > Arent you playing a first person shooter game at the moment? Look you > > > have > > > > succesfully gathered an (+100) sabotage package, which you may > percieve > > > as > > > > MOAB or SWORD! you are adding men to your Holly Alliance to a > strategic > > > > game. The more logical you are, the more support your argument get. > > > > > > To state it seriously: The frame work to watch movies, play games are > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > -- > "Freedom is the only law". > "Freedom Unplugged" > http://www.ilug-tvm.org > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "ilug-tvm" group. > To control your subscription visit > http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > > For details visit the google group page: > http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en > -- #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo da Vinci #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# -- "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To control your subscription visit http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For details visit the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
