On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:02 AM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into > mention? > Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know > instances > where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still > there, > and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like > installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are > supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy > counts." > > yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government > was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes. > this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get > simpler explanation for that. @Bipin: That is a contextual fact, i gave in the first sentance. There are other statements too. Being presented at first doesnt mean it is the essence of the post. Should have been better if you attempted on the question.. hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom > linux solution is a good choice simply put, it just have to run those > governance apps @Bipin: taken as a comment on (1) of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the selction of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and improvement. Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if it the resource demand can be afforded and well managed. Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community support. The core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at the speed of its parent, making it substandard. When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum, it loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the debian forum saying 'i am using i...@school and i would be pleased to get some comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For international users dont know i...@school. And they wont be very much intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as a more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election and other group glorification purposes. In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands (language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only when there is considerable change in policies. the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at: http://www.itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?searchword=FOSS&ordering=&searchphrase=all&option=com_search . > and not your favourite video editing apps. @Bipin: Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality** because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread] I get my favorite video apps running better when the above is taken into consideration.buhhhuhhahha. I get stability and office productivity when FOSS in governance sector is improved.buhuhhahha @evrybody: Is there any need, to prevent parasites (like me) feeding on the contributors effort? (NO/YES) If there is an need, how do we accomplish it: Share the specific distro only among those who sign a contribute-alike licence? What could be the terms of contribute-alike license? a) send us money (hai hai dollar!) b) make ten installations or get sued for braeking the contribute-alike license mitha-vaadhi version: brother, make some installation as far as you can, and do some support you can, at your free time. c) Time-bank (spend some hours in any way good for the socety. any progressive way, not only IT service) d) this would make people reluctant to adopt the specific distro. e)People would adopt the distro, as most of them are wiling to contribute to the society. f)there is no phenomenon/process like 'parasitisation on GPL product' in our FOSS dictionary, its just your sick brain man! d)Distro development team would be much more pleased, as ther is direct evidence of social change, and never has a feeling that they are feeding permanent 'free lunch eaters'. d) Shit-man, this is all already understood, there is no need of formalisation/consolidation. Formalisation is bad, even if you have time for it. now to the > latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these > institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not > interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is > set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions > provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership) > A comment on autocratic nature of institutes? does the TCO justify? atleast in long term? What I said was: govt "support" ,and not govt "control" > "Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances > where > there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example > those > involving field release of GMO food] > > Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give > you a > number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. > Shud > I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are > in a > reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an > above > normal moral value. " > > this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d > going on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some > other time. > welcome .you are right. > > > On May 18, 6:27 am, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:10 AM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > "> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in > > > > educational > > > > system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the user > > > > choose' > > > > ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they have > > > > chosen a solution that can meet their organizational requirements. " > > > > > its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am > > > referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following statement > > > in quotes don't require further explanation > > > > > > "I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( > > > since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its fsug. > > > and pls > > > gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! " > > > > > > "yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research > laboratories.Holy > > > cows.I > > > have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am > > > supportng ur view" > > > > > really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really like > > > to hear and see what you like to see. > > > > This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the > similiar > > performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares are > > there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which are > > highly ranked among professionals. > > > > > > > > > this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has opted > > > of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & educational > > > system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the > > > schools) > > > > > now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this context, > > > will you please explain. > > > > Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into mention? > > Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know > instances > > where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still > there, > > and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like > > installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are > > supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy > counts. > > > > > now regarding use of macs and other expensive > > > stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work, > > > have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. just > > > to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein > > > structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because no > > > other platform cuts it. > > > > Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth to > see > > some discussion on it. > > > > > you want us wait for the day when such > > > technology becomes available in other affordable platforms? > > > > This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or into > the > > dark space you called? > > You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux. > > > > > > > > > i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise are > > > made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and > > > financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis. > > > > FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most > outstanding > > innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch" > > And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered where > > ever possible, when making decisions. > > > > > > > > > you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats of > > > an organization. > > > > Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed? > > We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I would > like > > development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it matures > > fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I > asked > > which ones would be the better ones. > > > > > However open source community can help the government > > > in taking intelligent decision while deploying an ICT infrastructure. > > > > > > "yeah. so any proposal on how to tackle with this situation? make > Linux > > > customer support under Govt? make FOSS ultimatum under govt support in > > > a > > > very transparent way ? " > > > > > now this is an example of the kind of journalism we see nowadays. > > > rather than reacting to the whole statement you are making comment on > > > the basis of a part of my argument and not the complete one. any sane > > > man reading through this post is going to have serious doubts > > > regarding your motives. > > > > What is the complete argument? the first one you made reagrding > government, > > looked like "everything except funding for hardware is ok". I dont take > it > > that way, as i personally saw the problems. My cousine runs an Akshaya > > center, i used to attend classes arranged for Linux instead of him and > this > > class was shared by school teachers. I know the magnitude of problems > that > > came out in that class. > > > > Regarding my motive, I already said it wud be good to give more priority > to > > increasing userfriendliness.It helps spread, spreading helps users. > > > > I dont exactly know the state of Linux,( My personal understanding is > that > > linux desktop is much more prone to break down, when the software profile > is > > changed. Its a linear cycle of breaks and make-agains, once you decide to > > change software profile. I think no professional would afford it, unless > he > > has time for it,and fully capable of the repair workflow in all its ways. > > > > anyway why should government should tackle > > > > > such a problem? as per our constitution government can interfere in > > > the activities of a business only if they are suspected/found to > > > commit malpractices under the law and not at the whims and fancies of > > > a person. > > > > I shoud keep silence on what i percieve as imperfectness? Law is not > static, > > its ammended based on peoples cry. discussing it in forum is bad? > > > > > do you have any proof to the effect that corporations such > > > as Redhat is giving substandard products/services in order to boost > > > their profits, then by all means go ahead and sue them or make those > > > proof public so that we ignorants become enlightened. Till then its > > > innocent until proven guilty. > > > > RedHat sells distro. And I never said RedHat. why did you specifically > say > > RedHat? > > I stated a possibility.I have the right to. > > 'Standard products which are not servicable even by skilled user' is a > > situation in field. At times, it is restricted to company service > personnal, > > which can be clearly shown to be under extra-profit motive. > > > > Consider, the problem presented by Vyshak yesterday. Ubuntu doesnot > provide > > a default root password. there is only a complicated way of achieving it. > Is > > it a standard practice or a substandard practice?Linux Mint doesnt behave > > this way, and it doest suffer anything worse. opinions may vary. > > > > > > > > > > "Again, the holy cow is ignored. Resaerch eats national income in > chunks. > > > No > > > complaints, would like to hear ther is a lot of FOSS adopted in it." > > > > > now this is getting personal and the holy cow expression not humouring > > > me in this context > > > > Holy cow / sacred cow is an expression used against anything which is > immune > > to criticism. > > Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances where > > there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example those > > involving field release of GMO food] > > > > > put it this way i have a laptop which have brought from my fellowship. > > > this fellowship isn't anyone's gift or dole, rather i have earned it > > > and you personally know how difficult is to get one. so its my > > > prerogative that what i do with my system and your comments are not > > > welcome in that matter in a public forum. > > > > When did i say something like that man?Off course I know how difficult it > > is! You have any conscience problem with how you spend your salary, you > deal > > with it. Ask any reader of this thread wether any of communication > contained > > any indication on something like this. Why did you put that on my head? I > > have never felt this stressed,reading the ML. > > > > Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give you a > > number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. > Shud > > I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are in > a > > reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an above > > normal moral value. > > > > i am aware of the fact that > > > > > fellowship is awarded to me by the country in the hope of me doing > > > something constructive to society and to that extend i will do > > > whatever i can. > > > > we are sure you will. > > > > > however my personal life is not hostage to that fact > > > an hardware/software solution brought using taxpayers money by the > > > government for governance purpose should only be used for that purpose > > > alone and not for playing games by kids of some [public servant, if > > > they want to do that they can buy their own stuff from their salary. > > > > > I think the complexity is humorously used against my text going > crippled? > > > on the lighter note do us a favour will you? read through your lengthy > > > statements twice before posting. its getting very difficult make sense > > > out of those statements, i can do better job making sense from some > > > journal articles > > > > Yeah. I am not continuing any discussion associated with thoughts related > to > > FOSS, especially in any open forums. I am not putting this on you, you > may > > not answer this particular sentance. Just that I think I am doing more > harm > > than good. > > > > On May 17, 11:24 pm, nishandh M <pro.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:22 PM, bipin kumar <bipin...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > Seriously you dont know what you are posting do you? > > > > > > > do a google search and learn about enterprise wide IT deployment > > > > > process. better some people in this group might be able to spoon > feed > > > > > it to you in a way you understand > > > > > > > the word organization here refers to the govt and not fsug or > ilug-tvm > > > > > or al-qaeda for that matter. > > > > > > I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( > > > > since I had stressed upon about > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > -- > "Freedom is the only law". > "Freedom Unplugged" > http://www.ilug-tvm.org > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "ilug-tvm" group. > To control your subscription visit > http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe > To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ilug-tvm-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > > For details visit the google group page: > http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en > -- #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo da Vinci #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# -- "Freedom is the only law". 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