Dear Surajit ji, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- what Dinesh Ji says? Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and Gurucharan Ji's! Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he identifies a 15 ft tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or shrub, whatever it may) as *I. polyantha*!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That was my blunder of putting the guess as *I. polyantha*. Got carried away looking at the rather lax inflorescence - more nearer look-wise to *I. polyantha* than *I. finlaysoniana* ... I totally missed seeing the words 15 ft tree. Certainly my guess has added to your confusion. Please accept my apologies. Regards. Dinesh On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > Great! I was expecting this! Why so hurry dear Santosh Sir, to reach to a > conclusion? > > Don't you think all of you are contradicting yourselves? > > Let's see who has *Ixora polyantha* in our group. Certainly you have one, > uploaded twice and validated by yourself and Radha Ji. Gurcharan Sir has > one. DInesh Ji has one. And..... well, i will come to this later. Should i > paste here the links? I skip for the time being. > > > - What Radha Ji informs? > > Again i copy a few words i received from Radha Ji - 1) "....you can see > red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. *This is a very > noticeable feature.*...." 2) "Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted a > clear photo of I polyantha which should clear your doubts" > > Do you think i need to get my eyes checked by a good optician/doctor. > Because i fail to see any red calyx in your post(s) or in post(s) by > Gurcharan Sir. > > > - what Dinesh Ji says? > > Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i > wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and > Gurucharan Ji's! > Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he > identifies a 15 ft > tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or > shrub, whatever it may) as > *I. polyantha*!!! > > > - what Satish Sir says? > > Well, i am yet to see Satish Ji's cards. > > > - what is red calyx - white Ixora? > > How do i know Radha JI is correct? She contradicts herself. Besides there > is an illustration - > http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985 showing red > calyx-white flowers, which is *I chinensis* Lam. Moreover, one eflora > informs flowers of *I.finlaysoniana* are > cream-white<http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION>!!! > Of course some creams are pure white too!!! > > > - globose or flatter heads? > > What i happens if i show you flatter head with few flowers in this very > tree? > > > - tree or shrub? > > That's the only point you have, not strong enough. You know it far better > than me that cultivated plants defy many rules. > > None of you could show white hairs (sometimes, not always), hairy calyx > (pubescent, not hairy), stipules or other identifying characters in your > uploads. Hint of white patch can be found in Dinesh Ji's post, not sure if > those are white hairs or moulds, equally not sure if that is *I. polyantha > * or some other. So much contradicting posts and identification!!! > > Very interesting, isn't it? > > Regards, > surajit > > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Dr Santhosh Kumar < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Finally it may be concluded that your plant is Ixora finlaysoniana not >> I.polyantha >> >> >> On 12 May 2013 11:28, surajit koley <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Thank you Sir. >>> My understanding is a bit different. All the points i have found about >>> the two species, in various literature, FoC+FoP, and other sites, i think, >>> are not distinctive enough to come to any conclusion, specially when the >>> plants under consideration are selective cultivars. >>> >>> Regards, >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Surajit ji for a very detailed analysis with links. It should go >>>> a long way finally nailing the identity. My understanding of differences >>>> between two species under discussion is as under: >>>> >>>> I. polyantha >>>> I. finlaysoniana >>>> 1. Small shrub >>>> 1. Shrub or tree reaching up to 18 feet >>>> 2. stipules broadly ovate 2. >>>> Stipules triangular-ovate >>>> 3. Leaves 15-30 cm long 3. >>>> Leaves 10-17 cm long >>>> 4. Cymes densely covered with white hairs 4. Cymes >>>> puberulous, not with white hairs >>>> 5. Calyx hairy, tube 3-5 mm long, 5. >>>> Calyx glabrous, tube 1-1.5 mm long, >>>> lobes 6-8 mm long >>>> lobes 4-6 mm long. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 7:23 AM, radha veach <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>> >>>>> the points I have written to you are based on my own observations of >>>>> the two plants in the field and later confirmed by written texts. >>>>> >>>>> In the end all we have are our own experiences which we can offer to >>>>> others. >>>>> >>>>> best regards >>>>> Radha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11 May 2013 22:30, surajit koley <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Madam, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much for the points to be remembered about *I. >>>>>> polyantha* and *I. finlaysoniana*. Some confusions still exist - >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Yes, it is so in Cooke - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ia600406.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=floraofpresidenc01cook&itemPath=%2F21%2Fitems%2Ffloraofpresidenc01cook&server=ia600406.us.archive.org&page=n626_w299 >>>>>> - Also in Talbot - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/TalbotTreesBombay/TalbotTreesBombayPresidency#page/n323/mode/2up >>>>>> - But not in Hooker - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ia700609.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot21753000004407&itemPath=%2F0%2Fitems%2Fmobot21753000004407&server=ia700609.us.archive.org&page=n143_w291 >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>> buildings. >>>>>> >>>>>> - I do not know about habitat, so i should refrain here. However, >>>>>> Hooghly is a moist area and FoP informs it is cultivated in Pakistan. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Cooke - "Flowers in corymbiform cymes open or collected into a >>>>>> globose head" >>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>> - Hooker - "...... or open very-many flowered branches robust..." >>>>>> and " ... collected into globose sessile head...." >>>>>> >>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Cooke - ".. usually densely clothed with white hairs....." >>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>> - Hooker - " .... sometimes white with dense woolly spreading >>>>>> hair..." >>>>>> >>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and often >>>>>> the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly than the flat >>>>>> leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Cooke - (in *I. polyantha*) petiole 1/8 to 3/8 th in. long. >>>>>> That translates to about 3 mm to 9,5 mm, which is almost same as >>>>>> *Ixora >>>>>> finlaysoniana* in FoC >>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>> - Hooker - leaves sessile or short petioled >>>>>> - Again i refrain about wrinkly leaves, because nothing found >>>>>> anywhere >>>>>> >>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they are >>>>>> ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. >>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature.* >>>>>> >>>>>> - nothing found on red calyx lobes in Talbot and Hooker. Ripe >>>>>> fruits are red in Cooke >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, for winkled leaves, red calyx, please check - >>>>>> http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985. >>>>>> >>>>>> Found *Ixora finlaysoniana* - >>>>>> >>>>>> - http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id182195/?taxonid=213548 >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ecflora.cavehill.uwi.edu/vhdetail.php?did=2438&sn=Ixora+finlaysoniana >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION >>>>>> >>>>>> I skipped eFI posts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:55 AM, radhaveach <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you read the descriptions of Ixora polyantha in Cooke's Flora or >>>>>>> in Talbot's Forest Flora of Bombay Presidency and Sind and compare them >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the Flora of China description of Ixora finlaysoniana you will have all >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> answers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The obvious differences which can be seen in a photograph are as >>>>>>> follows: >>>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>>> buildings. >>>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and often >>>>>>> the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly than the >>>>>>> flat >>>>>>> leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they >>>>>>> are ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. >>>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature. >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted a clear photo of I >>>>>>> polyantha which should clear your doubts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as I remember I. polyantha is also fragrant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I apologise if my previous reply cause some frustration. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Requesting experts to add their comments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, May 10, 2013 9:59:35 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Radha Ji. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Thank you very much.* But, why don't you think it is *Ixora >>>>>>>> polyantha* ? I have two queries - >>>>>>>> 1) Is *I. polyantha* fragrant? >>>>>>>> 2) How do you differentiate the two species? >>>>>>>> I searched, but - https://groups.google.com/d/** >>>>>>>> msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/**OLriIyMe4iYJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/OLriIyMe4iYJ> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Toptropical, Dave's, The Plant List conflict with each other. So >>>>>>>> does FoC or FoP. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Thank you once again.* >>>>>>>> *Regards,* >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, 10 May 2013 15:05:35 UTC+5:30, radhaveach wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think this is Ixora polyantha. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please see this efi post: >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**forum/#!searchin/** >>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$**20Week$3A$20Ixora$** >>>>>>>>> 20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$**20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/** >>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/**MnVH4bqpQigJ<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21searchin/indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$20Week$3A$20Ixora$20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/MnVH4bqpQigJ> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From this it seems that the commonly cultivated Ixora in many >>>>>>>>> gardens is *Ixora finlaysoniana* Wall. ex G. Don, Gen. Hist. 3: >>>>>>>>> 572 1834 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:32:14 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is a tree with highly scented big flowers. It cannot be *I. >>>>>>>>>> parviflora* Vahl (*I. pavetta* >>>>>>>>>> Andr.<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=242423581>), >>>>>>>>>> neither *I. undulata* Roxb. >>>>>>>>>> Photos were taken on 06-April-2013, in Hooghly. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/aeWdGDgGt8I/unsubscribe?hl=en >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> SANTHOSH >> ------------------------------------------ >> Dr. E.S. Santhosh Kumar MSc, PhD, FIAT, FLS (on leave for 2 years) >> Jawaharlal Nehru Tropical Botanic Garden and Research Institute, Palode >> Thiruvananthapuram-695562 >> Kerala >> India >> www.drsanthosh.wetpaint.com >> >> Presently working for the British Aerospace, Riyadh, KSA >> NB: Please consider your environmental responsibility! Ask yourself >> before printing this email !!! >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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