Dear Dear Dinesh Ji, Please do not say apology. Whatever i i have learned about flora is all from you, Gurcharan Sir, Satish Sir....... recently Santosh Sir, Radha Ji.. .... each and every member in this group.
I argue, to learn, to find the truth, as you have said in another mail - all of us. Nothing personal. As you have also said expressions vary from person to person, while communicating. Thank you, Regards, surajit On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: > Dear Surajit ji, > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > - what Dinesh Ji says? > > Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i > wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and > Gurucharan Ji's! > Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he > identifies a 15 ft > tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or > shrub, whatever it may) as > *I. polyantha*!!! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > That was my blunder of putting the guess as *I. polyantha*. > Got carried away looking at the rather lax inflorescence - more nearer > look-wise to *I. polyantha* than *I. finlaysoniana* ... I totally missed > seeing the words 15 ft tree. > Certainly my guess has added to your confusion. > Please accept my apologies. > > Regards. > Dinesh > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Great! I was expecting this! Why so hurry dear Santosh Sir, to reach to a >> conclusion? >> >> Don't you think all of you are contradicting yourselves? >> >> Let's see who has *Ixora polyantha* in our group. Certainly you have >> one, uploaded twice and validated by yourself and Radha Ji. Gurcharan Sir >> has one. DInesh Ji has one. And..... well, i will come to this later. >> Should i paste here the links? I skip for the time being. >> >> >> - What Radha Ji informs? >> >> Again i copy a few words i received from Radha Ji - 1) "....you can see >> red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. *This is a very >> noticeable feature.*...." 2) "Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted a >> clear photo of I polyantha which should clear your doubts" >> >> Do you think i need to get my eyes checked by a good optician/doctor. >> Because i fail to see any red calyx in your post(s) or in post(s) by >> Gurcharan Sir. >> >> >> - what Dinesh Ji says? >> >> Dinesh Ji's post gets validated by Radha Ji's "red calyx". Strange! i >> wonder how Dinesh Ji's "red calyx" turns green in Santosh Ji's and >> Gurucharan Ji's! >> Moreover, Dinesh Ji seems to know *I. polyantha* very well, yet he >> identifies a 15 ft >> tree<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_O7EFpLoasA/Hv1JHvH6jHUJ>(or >> shrub, whatever it may) as >> *I. polyantha*!!! >> >> >> - what Satish Sir says? >> >> Well, i am yet to see Satish Ji's cards. >> >> >> - what is red calyx - white Ixora? >> >> How do i know Radha JI is correct? She contradicts herself. Besides there >> is an illustration - >> http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985 showing >> red calyx-white flowers, which is *I chinensis* Lam. Moreover, one >> eflora informs flowers of *I.finlaysoniana* are >> cream-white<http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION>!!! >> Of course some creams are pure white too!!! >> >> >> - globose or flatter heads? >> >> What i happens if i show you flatter head with few flowers in this very >> tree? >> >> >> - tree or shrub? >> >> That's the only point you have, not strong enough. You know it far better >> than me that cultivated plants defy many rules. >> >> None of you could show white hairs (sometimes, not always), hairy calyx >> (pubescent, not hairy), stipules or other identifying characters in your >> uploads. Hint of white patch can be found in Dinesh Ji's post, not sure if >> those are white hairs or moulds, equally not sure if that is *I. >> polyantha* or some other. So much contradicting posts and >> identification!!! >> >> Very interesting, isn't it? >> >> Regards, >> surajit >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Dr Santhosh Kumar < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Finally it may be concluded that your plant is Ixora finlaysoniana not >>> I.polyantha >>> >>> >>> On 12 May 2013 11:28, surajit koley <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Sir. >>>> My understanding is a bit different. All the points i have found about >>>> the two species, in various literature, FoC+FoP, and other sites, i think, >>>> are not distinctive enough to come to any conclusion, specially when the >>>> plants under consideration are selective cultivars. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for a very detailed analysis with links. It should >>>>> go a long way finally nailing the identity. My understanding of >>>>> differences >>>>> between two species under discussion is as under: >>>>> >>>>> I. polyantha >>>>> I. finlaysoniana >>>>> 1. Small shrub >>>>> 1. Shrub or tree reaching up to 18 feet >>>>> 2. stipules broadly ovate 2. >>>>> Stipules triangular-ovate >>>>> 3. Leaves 15-30 cm long 3. >>>>> Leaves 10-17 cm long >>>>> 4. Cymes densely covered with white hairs 4. Cymes >>>>> puberulous, not with white hairs >>>>> 5. Calyx hairy, tube 3-5 mm long, 5. >>>>> Calyx glabrous, tube 1-1.5 mm long, >>>>> lobes 6-8 mm long >>>>> lobes 4-6 mm long. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 7:23 AM, radha veach <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>>> >>>>>> the points I have written to you are based on my own observations of >>>>>> the two plants in the field and later confirmed by written texts. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the end all we have are our own experiences which we can offer to >>>>>> others. >>>>>> >>>>>> best regards >>>>>> Radha >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 May 2013 22:30, surajit koley <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Madam, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much for the points to be remembered about *I. >>>>>>> polyantha* and *I. finlaysoniana*. Some confusions still exist - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Yes, it is so in Cooke - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ia600406.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=floraofpresidenc01cook&itemPath=%2F21%2Fitems%2Ffloraofpresidenc01cook&server=ia600406.us.archive.org&page=n626_w299 >>>>>>> - Also in Talbot - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.archive.org/stream/TalbotTreesBombay/TalbotTreesBombayPresidency#page/n323/mode/2up >>>>>>> - But not in Hooker - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ia700609.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?id=mobot21753000004407&itemPath=%2F0%2Fitems%2Fmobot21753000004407&server=ia700609.us.archive.org&page=n143_w291 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>>> buildings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - I do not know about habitat, so i should refrain here. >>>>>>> However, Hooghly is a moist area and FoP informs it is cultivated in >>>>>>> Pakistan. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Cooke - "Flowers in corymbiform cymes open or collected into a >>>>>>> globose head" >>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>> - Hooker - "...... or open very-many flowered branches >>>>>>> robust..." and " ... collected into globose sessile head...." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Cooke - ".. usually densely clothed with white hairs....." >>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>> - Hooker - " .... sometimes white with dense woolly spreading >>>>>>> hair..." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and often >>>>>>> the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly than the >>>>>>> flat >>>>>>> leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Cooke - (in *I. polyantha*) petiole 1/8 to 3/8 th in. long. >>>>>>> That translates to about 3 mm to 9,5 mm, which is almost same as >>>>>>> *Ixora finlaysoniana* in FoC >>>>>>> - Talbot - nothing found >>>>>>> - Hooker - leaves sessile or short petioled >>>>>>> - Again i refrain about wrinkly leaves, because nothing found >>>>>>> anywhere >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they >>>>>>> are ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting flowers. >>>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - nothing found on red calyx lobes in Talbot and Hooker. Ripe >>>>>>> fruits are red in Cooke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, for winkled leaves, red calyx, please check - >>>>>>> http://plantgenera.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=96985. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Found *Ixora finlaysoniana* - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id182195/?taxonid=213548 >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ecflora.cavehill.uwi.edu/vhdetail.php?did=2438&sn=Ixora+finlaysoniana >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://apps.kew.org/efloras/namedetail.do?flora=fz&taxon=54829&nameid=121493#DESCRIPTION >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I skipped eFI posts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 8:55 AM, radhaveach <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Surajit, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you read the descriptions of Ixora polyantha in Cooke's Flora or >>>>>>>> in Talbot's Forest Flora of Bombay Presidency and Sind and compare >>>>>>>> them to >>>>>>>> the Flora of China description of Ixora finlaysoniana you will have >>>>>>>> all the >>>>>>>> answers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The obvious differences which can be seen in a photograph are as >>>>>>>> follows: >>>>>>>> 1. I. polyantha is a much smaller shrub. >>>>>>>> 2. It thrives in a moist forest environment and not surrounded by >>>>>>>> buildings. >>>>>>>> 3. I. polyantha flower heads are slightly flatter and less rounded. >>>>>>>> 4. In .I polyantha the branches of the cyme are covered in dense >>>>>>>> white hairs. This can be clearly seen when the flowers are in bud. >>>>>>>> 5. The leaves of I polyantha have extremely short petioles and >>>>>>>> often the leaves are sessile. Its leaves also appear more wrinkly than >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> flat leaves of the cultivated plant in your pics. >>>>>>>> 6. In I. polyantha the fruits are bright red and even before they >>>>>>>> are ripe you can see red calyx lobes at the base of the wilting >>>>>>>> flowers. >>>>>>>> *This is a very noticeable feature. >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> Santhosh Kumar has quite recently posted a clear photo of I >>>>>>>> polyantha which should clear your doubts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As far as I remember I. polyantha is also fragrant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I apologise if my previous reply cause some frustration. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Requesting experts to add their comments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, May 10, 2013 9:59:35 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Radha Ji. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Thank you very much.* But, why don't you think it is *Ixora >>>>>>>>> polyantha* ? I have two queries - >>>>>>>>> 1) Is *I. polyantha* fragrant? >>>>>>>>> 2) How do you differentiate the two species? >>>>>>>>> I searched, but - https://groups.google.com/d/** >>>>>>>>> msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/**OLriIyMe4iYJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/W-AS4OWhx1U/OLriIyMe4iYJ> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Toptropical, Dave's, The Plant List conflict with each other. So >>>>>>>>> does FoC or FoP. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Thank you once again.* >>>>>>>>> *Regards,* >>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, 10 May 2013 15:05:35 UTC+5:30, radhaveach wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think this is Ixora polyantha. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please see this efi post: >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**forum/#!searchin/** >>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$**20Week$3A$20Ixora$** >>>>>>>>>> 20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$**20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/** >>>>>>>>>> indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/**MnVH4bqpQigJ<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21searchin/indiantreepix/Rubiaceae$20Week$3A$20Ixora$20finlaysoniana$20Wall.$20ex$20G.$20Don$20from$20Delhi/indiantreepix/p_O-MPwW9O8/MnVH4bqpQigJ> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From this it seems that the commonly cultivated Ixora in many >>>>>>>>>> gardens is *Ixora finlaysoniana* Wall. ex G. Don, Gen. Hist. 3: >>>>>>>>>> 572 1834 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>>> Radha >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:32:14 PM UTC+5:30, surajitkoley >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is a tree with highly scented big flowers. It cannot be *I. >>>>>>>>>>> parviflora* Vahl (*I. pavetta* >>>>>>>>>>> Andr.<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=242423581>), >>>>>>>>>>> neither *I. undulata* Roxb. >>>>>>>>>>> Photos were taken on 06-April-2013, in Hooghly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>>> the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/aeWdGDgGt8I/unsubscribe?hl=en >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> SANTHOSH >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> Dr. E.S. Santhosh Kumar MSc, PhD, FIAT, FLS (on leave for 2 years) >>> Jawaharlal Nehru Tropical Botanic Garden and Research Institute, Palode >>> Thiruvananthapuram-695562 >>> Kerala >>> India >>> www.drsanthosh.wetpaint.com >>> >>> Presently working for the British Aerospace, Riyadh, KSA >>> NB: Please consider your environmental responsibility! Ask yourself >>> before printing this email !!! >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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