>>>>> Le Sam, 16 avr 2022 13:19:47 +0200, Adam Sjøgren >>>>> <a...@koldfront.dk> a dit:
Adam> Durand writes: Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse Adam> it in Gnus e.g. by using G f in the *Group* buffer: Durand> Thanks for the information. That is exactly what I want! Adam> Great! Adam> [Traditional subscription to a mailing list] Durand> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the Durand> mailing list in my mail inbox. Adam> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a Adam> mailing list into a separate "group" (folder). I have tried to play with splitting mails using some simple sieve scripts. It is indeed fun. :) Durand> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I Durand> know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete Durand> them. But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed Durand> mailing list again in the future? Re-subscribing to the Durand> list won't send me the old mails again. So I need some Durand> way to read the entire mailing list. Adam> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps Adam> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you Adam> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails Adam> back to when the group was created in Gmane. Agreed. Adam> [Being in control] Durand> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the Durand> contents on the server. For example, I have to request to Durand> add some mailing lists to the server. How am I in control Durand> of that? What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list Durand> that I don't wish others to know that I want to subscribe Durand> to? Adam> Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of the Adam> question. But then you have the problems you mentioned Adam> above instead :-) Indeed. That is just some hypothetical (and silly) question. The purpose of mentionning it is to show that I am not in control of the process, though it is not a very practical issue. Durand> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the Durand> mailing list, could I remove the list from the gmane Durand> server? Adam> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but Adam> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane - Adam> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who Adam> subscribed to the group in the meantime. Indeed. That is why I think I am not in control: I cannot reverse some actions initiated by me. Durand> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server? Adam> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this Adam> myself, so I built it. Maybe others would like to use it as Adam> well, feel free to do so"-project. Although I don't know Adam> what Lars' motivations were/are. Adam> As long as it isn't abused, it's a nice service and a neat Adam> solution to a problem shared by a bunch of people. I see. Durand> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so Durand> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing Durand> lists to the server? Adam> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on the Adam> internet. Adam> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by Adam> people. People can only type so much. Adam> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? Adam> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes. I understand this is not a practical issue now. I was imagining that this is easily abused, e.g. some user can make up a plethora of mailing lists, and then blow the gmane server up by subscribing to a new list every 10 seconds, say. [ I am not sure if my concerns are valid. I should add a disclaimer that I am a Mathematics student, and I tend to consider extreme cases before taking practical issues into consideration. Sorry if my mail caused any trouble. ] Durand> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an Durand> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists? Adam> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists, Adam> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that Adam> people are interested in reading through Gmane. Adam> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need Adam> for capacity. Adam> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the Adam> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-) Thanks again for the reply. Adam> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related, Adam> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on Adam> news.gmane.io? :-) I think my question is already answered by your mention of `gnus-group-make-doc-group', so there is currently no need to discuss further. Or per chance you want to discuss something? >>>>> Le Sam, 16 avr 2022 19:41:31 +0800, Emanuel Berg via >>>>> "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet >>>>> newsreader (in English)" <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> a dit: Emanuel> Adam Sjøgren wrote: Durand> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the Durand> mailing list in my mail inbox. Adam> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a Adam> mailing list into a separate "group" (folder). Emanuel> But that is a poor-man's solution, it will have to be Emanuel> setup manually, and retrieval will be non-selective. Emanuel> Gnus can do much better than than with Gmane which is the Emanuel> specific tool to solve this exact situation; also, it Emanuel> comes with a bunch of other advantages. Emanuel> Remember, Gnus is to Emacs users what Emacs is to Emanuel> computer users ... I agree. I enjoy using Gnus a lot. That is why I am searching for some way to view mailing lists in Gnus that makes me feel better. :) Durand> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I Durand> know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete Durand> them. But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed Durand> mailing list again in the future? Re-subscribing to the Durand> list won't send me the old mails again. So I need some Durand> way to read the entire mailing list. Adam> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps Adam> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you Adam> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails Adam> back to when the group was created in Gmane. Emanuel> It is much better, not the least/especially in terms of Emanuel> the interface. Sure. Durand> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the Durand> contents on the server. For example, I have to request to Durand> add some mailing lists to the server. How am I in control Durand> of that? What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list Durand> that I don't wish others to know that I want to subscribe Durand> to? Adam> [ one sentence elided ... ] Emanuel> You mean the admin of Gmane? Emanuel> Because everyone else don't know. Or if they do, please Emanuel> tell me what 16 MLs/newsgroups and 1 blog I currently Emanuel> subscribe to thru Gmane/Gwene and the news.gmane.io Emanuel> server? Emanuel> But this objection is silly to begin with ... Indeed this is a silly question. As I said in the above reply to Adam, my previous question had already been answered. I was just trying to express that I am not in total control of the process, though the issue proposed is just theoretical instead of practical. [ And indeed the administrators of gmane would know my subscriptions to the mailing lists. What if I want to subscribe to some secret mailing list that discusses the proof of Riemann hypothesis (amonst my friends, say), and since the administrators of gmane knew I subscribed to the list, they started following that list, and eventually stole my proof? In case it is not obvious, this is a joke. You don't have to tell me this is silly and not funny. I already know it. ] Durand> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the Durand> mailing list, could I remove the list from the gmane Durand> server? Adam> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but Adam> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane - Adam> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who Adam> subscribed to the group in the meantime. Emanuel> Right - on the contrary, with Gnus and Gmane, killing or Emanuel> unsubscribing to a group is one keystroke away. But Emanuel> better yet, it isn't needed even since if you don't visit Emanuel> the groups, nothing happens. This is what I mentioned Emanuel> above, altho from the other side of it, with Gmane, Emanuel> retrieval is selective. Thanks. I already know this. I mentionned removing mails as I was thinking about the reversibility of my actions: I could add some mailing list to the server, but I could not reverse this action. This makes me feel asymmetrical. ;p It also has to do with my space concerns: I cannot remove mailing lists if I add too many lists to the server. Durand> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server? Adam> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this Adam> myself, so I built it. Maybe others would like to use it as Adam> well, feel free to do so"-project. Although I don't know Adam> what Lars' motivations were/are. Emanuel> It is to simplify/speed up the process. Either people Emanuel> don't abuse it, or if they do to some very small extent, Emanuel> there are automatic or manual checks to correct it. It Emanuel> is a tool for Emacs Gnus users. Compare "there are Emanuel> [were?] no viruses for Linux". Thanks for the explanation. I am exactly concerned about that micro possibility of people abusing the service. Durand> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so Durand> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing Durand> lists to the server? Adam> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on Adam> the internet. Adam> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by Adam> people. People can only type so much. Adam> Adam> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? Adam> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes. Emanuel> Ha! Dear OP, just try it before you make up objections. Emanuel> To quote the barrel racer, just try - and you will fly! I don't know exactly what I shall try: I am already using Gnus, and gmane. And my need was already satisfied by the function `gnus-group-make-doc-group'. Sorry if I was not clear about this point. Durand> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an Durand> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists? Adam> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists, Adam> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that Adam> people are interested in reading through Gmane. Adam> Adam> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need Adam> for capacity. Adam> Adam> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the Adam> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-) Adam> Adam> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related, Adam> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on Adam> news.gmane.io? :-) Emanuel> The problem isn't your answers but the OP - or should I call Emanuel> him the PO? - 's inside-out attitude. Trust us, if you are Emanuel> a Gnus user, Gmane is what you are looking for. It is there Emanuel> especially for your use-case. Just do us all a favor and try Emanuel> it instead of making up made-up objections. I am already using gmane to view this mailing list. I don't know what I shall try. Maybe you mean to add some mailing list to gmane server? Well, I prefer downloading the mailing list and viewing it using `gnus-group-make-doc-group' for now. Also, I am not making objections to gmane. I was just confused about the working of gmane. I never said I won't use gmane because of the concerns. I just asked some questions that I could not figure out. Sorry if my theoretical, hypothetical and inpractical questions, and / or my ambiguous phrasing, disturbed you. -- Durand