On Tue, Mar 06, 2007 at 02:02:35AM -0800, Michael Vanier wrote: > As everyone knows, real Ion users compile from source ;-) If you need a > distro to manage Ion installation, maybe you should consider some other > WM...? and then, maybe not.
I don't think this attitude is helpful. what's the sense of this? AFAICS `ion3' is a very useful WM, i.e. a tool (repeat together: A TOOL). as far as I understand the ion home page the whole point was to create a better user (repeat: USER) interface. not for everyone, certainly, but for a non-negligible fraction of the people who need a WM (i.e. those who are sitting in front of some unix box). arguing against distros and/or package management systems seems bizarre to me. > > BTW thanks for a great window manager. Now I'm ruined forever; all the > other WMs have so much eye candy I feel like I'm going to go into insulin > shock whenever I try them. > > Mike > > Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > >I'm sick of distributions providing ancient development snapshots, that > >their lusers think is the latest, and come crying to me about. Since > >Debian appears to refuse [1,2] to remove the ancient Ion3 development > >snapshot that they have (20061223, the last release with totally broken > >Xinerama support) from the new static (so called "stable") distribution, > >I will be refusing to deal with the average Debian luser, just like I > >can't be bothered to deal with the average Gentoo luser. Sucks though > >that already filtering out these lusers from the complaining masses is > >a lot of work. Sucks that the first question to everyone must be "which > >version and distro you're using" -- and it's usually the people who've > >installed Ion from a distribution, that are using old unsupported > >development snapshots. (Actually, maybe I should just stop supporting > >anyone who has not installed Ion from the official tarball. Let the > >distros support their own lusers.) maybe neither wise to interfere nor of relevance to you but anyway: sure, you are not overreacting a bit? having strong opinions I like and getting angry at stupidity (or what one thinks is stupidity -- not necessary the same thing) I understand (happens to me, too), but a 'take no prisoners' approach is too much for me. whatever and whoever might have got on your nerves: a 12 weeks old version is "ancient"? if that version is broken, that's bad and it should not be in the distro (and maybe no longer at the homepage for download?) but than I would argue that it might have been better in the first place to do the usual thing and to clearly identify/discriminate a "stable version" (which should go in the distros and "development snapshots" (which everyone might download from the home page and compile/test). as far as I can see, `ion3' is simply flagged as "development" at the home page. so what is a poor guy wanting to include `ion3' in a distro to do? what would have prevented to identify some intermediate version as "sufficiently stable" for average use? sure, it's not your responsibility to do this and it's not your problem if the debian/gentoo people have somehow managed to include the wrong `ion3' version, but sweeping the shotgun in a 360 deg. circle in this way?? > > > >I'm also considering extending the license (LGPL) with a "Distributor > >timely response clause", something like the following (D). It could > >make Ion "non-free", but I don't care about these idealists' definitions > >of freeness. > > > > D. Anyone distributing Ion3 in aggregate with other works, must > > within twenty-eight (28) days from the release of a new version > > of Ion3, either (A) upgrade the aggregate to include the new > > version, and cause the new version be installed when a user tries > > to install an unspecified version of Ion3, or upgrade Ion3 (from the > > aggregate); or (B) remove Ion3 from the aggregate, and notify users > > of the removal, when they try to upgrade the aggregate or Ion3 (from > > the aggregate) and have installed an old version of Ion3. (It is, > > however, not necessary to remove Ion3 from the user's computer; > > merely notify of its out-datedness.) > > > > The requirements above on responses to user actions do not apply, > > if the user is not network-connected, or chooses not to use network > > installation, and is using physical distribution media. > > > > This clause does not bind any rebranded derivative works, that can > > not be confused with Ion3: that is, any derivative work whose name > > can not be confused with "Ion3", and which in in no way points > > to the original work or its authors for support, may be distributed > > under the LGPL or GPL without this clause. > > or maybe forbid the use of `ion3' altogether? come on. tell you what: I'm writing this while running ion3ds-20060524 which happens to lie around at the macports site because some nice guy added it to that package management system. suits me fine. if I'm not content, sure I can download the official tarball and see whether I get it installed. fact is: I have work to do and the trade off between having the latest&greatest and simply use what's there is easy for me at the moment. you want to force the guys to upgrade their system every few weeks or remove `ion3' altogether? mmh. could serve as a strategy to ensure that ion users know each other personally in a few years. a happy not-even-having-compiled-it-himself-prehistoric-version-of-ion3-user > >(Perhaps this should be combined with a clause that forbids > >distributors from applying unsupported/unapproved patches... > >like Xft... Too bad that due to the nature of Gentoo ebuilds, > >it probably doesn't work against them.) > > > >Too bad that Ion3 is going into a freeze too soon, so that the > >benefit of the clause would be minimal, as it doesn't work > >retroactively. But if that wasn't the case, I'd certainly add it. > >I'm sick of sloppy distributors and mega-frozen distributions, > >and the lusers who think they're using the latest version because > >of them. > > > > [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=413469 > > > > [2] > > http://www.inittab.de/blog/debian/20070305_giving-away-ion-packages.html > >
