Hi Jim,

> Simply because of address spoof DOS we must at least permit DAD. The
> cost is only at node-on.  Now the timers and lifetimes administration
> for a mobile network could be a problem but that is tunable.  I believe
> we are talking miliseconds.  What we need are some tests.
> I will ask our folks to test our handhelds for DAD timings.

That'd be useful.

> 
> But any implementation can turn anything it wants off for v6.  We can
> say MUST or SHOULD but users may or may not use it.
> 

Yes. If the cost of DAD is too high (compared to the risk),
and solutions to remedy the situation is also not as attractive,
networks/architectures might choose to skip DAD, I'm afraid.


> I am not comfortable changing DAD for anything here quite yet based on
> the arguments on the "for" side at all.

As far as I understand, people are not suggesting changing DAD, but instead
developing an optimized version of it. Both versions should be able
to co-exist, no interference. 

alper

> 
> /jim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alper E. YEGIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:12 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Pekka Savola'
> Cc: 'Nick 'Sharkey' Moore'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Optimistic DAD draft ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Tony,
> 
> > True, but the term 'hand-off' implies a make-before-break process, 
> > else the MN is just establishing itself on a new link. Given it has 
> > the opportunity to be aware of multiple links, it can decide when to 
> > switch. I am arguing that it complete DAD 'before' it makes that 
> > decision, not after.
> 
> I don't think we can consider all "handoffs" as 'make-before-break'.
> There exists some link-layer technologies that allow this, but not all
> have such capability. 
> 
> Completing DAD before handover requires either movement anticipation or
> make-before-break, both of which are not widely applicable. Therefore
> solving DAD latency for general case is a valid approach, imo.
> 
> alper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Tony
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pekka Savola [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 1:32 PM
> > > To: Tony Hain
> > > Cc: 'Nick 'Sharkey' Moore'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: Optimistic DAD draft ...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Tony Hain wrote:
> > > > [...] it would seem the prudent thing for a MN to do is
> > > establish DAD
> > > > for all candidate prefixes well before it is ready to start using
> > > > them. [...]
> > > 
> > > Isn't there a problem with how this could be done, as
> > > currently specified?
> > > 
> > > One can't perform DAD before being on the link.
> > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Nick 
> > > > > 'Sharkey' Moore
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 7:58 PM
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Optimistic DAD draft ...
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > G'day IPng-ers,
> > > > > 
> > > > > One of the big issues in getting low-latency
> > > > > handovers working for IPv6 mobility is the long delay involved 
> > > > > in
> > > > > completing DAD.
> > > > > 
> > > > > One option is to allow the Mobile Node to communicate while the 
> > > > > address is still Tentative (optimistically assuming that DAD 
> > > > > will succeed), but to adjust its ND / SAA behaviour in order to 
> > > > > minimize disruption in case of an address conflict (and maintain
> 
> > > > > correct interoperation with
> > > unmodified nodes).
> > > > > 
> > > > > We've kicked the idea around a little on mobile-ip,
> > > > > and I've formalized my thoughts into an internet draft,
> > > which should
> > > > > get published soon.  In the meantime, you can find it at
> > > > > <http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/ipv6/fastho.htm>
> > > > > (tentatively titled draft-moore-ipv6-optimistic-dad-00).
> > > > > 
> > > > >         I'd be interested in your opinions on the draft, and its
> > > > > potential suitability for standards track.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > cheers,
> > > > >         Nick
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Nick 'Sharkey' Moore                    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Research Fellow, CTIE                   Tel: +61 3 9905 3707
> > > > > Monash University,  Australia           Fax: +61 3 9905 5358  
> > > > > 
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
> > > Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
> > > Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords
> > > 
> > 
> > 
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