----- Original Message -----
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Rupert]: introduction : webapp development tools
> Vincent Massol wrote:
> >
> > hum ... I see ... But isn't this the goal for the Commons project as a
whole
> > ? I mean why is there a necessity to create an umbrella project like
Rupert.
>
> Why do you say 'an umbrella'? Where should we put it? Cactus? DBCP?
> Digester? Suggestions welcome.
>
> These are separate little miscellaneous tools that everyone seems to
> reinvent. And I would guess all of these are too small to stand on
> their own. So we need some kind of bucket to keep them in.
>
> If there is functionality from an existing commons component that can be
> leveraged, it will be done. Right now there are no tools that will add
> two floating point numbers, for example, but it is something that people
> want to do when using Velocity and WebMacro. We believe that it's not
> appropriate to be in the template language proper (just as it isn't in
> JSP proper...), so custom tools are the solution.
>
It's simply a question of graininess I guess ... What I was saying is that
I would not feel very comfortable to see some floating point math tools put
into a web templating component project because the link between both is
weak ... *However*, if there is not enough matter to start a full floating
point library yes, I agree, why not put it in Rupert (or maybe better we can
have a special generic component that act as a holder for anything too small
to stand on it's own - Rupert is not generic as it's goal is to provide
tools to help write webapps) ... and then if it groes move it to it's own
project under jakarta-commons
>
> > We could say that all the components already under commons are for
building
> > web applications ... Why not continue by bringing small pieces of
> > functionality, the goal being that each piece is independent from one
> > another so that it can be used without using the whole ... ?
>
>
> That's what we're doing.
>
> My original post was
>
> "Our intent is to start a webapp tool component - tools and utilities
> that are useful in templates (and
> JSPs)."
>
> So maybe that wasn't a good way to define it - the idea here is to have
> a place for the zillions of little gadgets that people write when using
> a templating language. They are no different than the little zillions
> of helper classes I assume people make for JSPs. Sometimes, they wrap
> them in a taglib, but I suspect that many times they don't. In struts,
> there is a bean access wrapper tag to make it easier. What I would like
> to see is if we can bring out some of the tools that Struts has wrapped
> behind the bean wrapper so others can use.
>
>
> > Also, is this done in concert with Turbine as I heard that they tried to
> > remove a maximum of dependencies in their latest version (2.2 is it) so
that
> > a user could use only some part of it ...
>
> This has nothing to do with Turbine, other than Turbine might be able to
> donate some tools. There is no intention to bring in the Turbine
> framework, like services management, the object-relational mapping, or
> anything like that.
>
no, I meant the generic utility classes not the service framework ...
> But the tool that helps manipulate and parse parameters in a
> ServletRequest? Sure. That's general, framework independent, and
> usable by lots of people.
>
exactly ...
> >
> > Note that I am not saying that Rupert is not a good project ! Far from
me to
> > have this kind of idea ! I'm just trying to understand the rationale.
>
> This is good - if you don't understand, then I wasn't clear in my
> description, and this helps make it better. Keep pushing back!
>
I will ... :-)
> geir
Thanks
Vincent.
