When I started with Java 3D a few years ago (3 years?) I was looking for something that I could develop a polyhedra visualization/manipulation/animation/interaction system with which 1) was "automatically" cross platform, 2) runable from the web as well as an application, 3) would have stereo capability, and 4) I wouldn't need to know much about special "techniques" in computer 3D rendering nor animations. I thought Java would be *the* thing to use.
But, at that time, the installation of Java 3D on my (and my friend's) PCs was a real pain. Sometimes it went just fine and other times it was a real headache! That now seems to be solved. I liked the scene graph approach. But I also found Java 3D to be too complex. I expected to be able to just define the object and their behaviors and the scene would render just fine. But it doesn't work that way. You have to know all kinds of special settings, like rending order, several capability bits need to be set at various nodes to accomplish a simple task, etc. (Clear examples escape me at the momnet, but it was my impression there were a lot of "settings" that one had to learn to make things work.) And transparencies, for me, was a complete failure. I still have a lot of problems when using transparencies and I end up having to use "SCREENDOOR" which sort of works but very low quality. I would love to see a "subset" of Java 3D in which a lot of different options are taken out. I'd like to see the subset as a "just specify the geometry and sub-Java 3D will render it as it would appear in the real world". Then, if you want or need fancy stuff, you could get the "full" Java 3d package. Also, the cross platform never materialized, as I had hoped it would. I don't use Java 3D at work at all. Its more of a "hobby" but one which other people were, on occasion, paying me to produce animations. I'd like to see Java 3D continue (but with a subset as I mentioned above to make it really simple) which means *support*. Doesn't matter to me who the support is coming from (company or active user group) as long as there is someone I can tap on the shoulder to figure out what went wrong.... I would not be willing to pay much for support nor for the package.... I had dreams of eventually running my program in a CAVE environment. I have some contacts at a couple of Universities that were interested in doing this with my program. Now that's all on hold while I figure out what to re-write everything in. (I refuse to try to code significant (to me) programs in anything that is not "supported" and actively being developed (fixing of bugs).) Now I am looking to move on. I've downloaded JOGL and I have started to learn openGL. Yuk. Too much low level detail. On the other hand, once I know openGL, I am thinking I would be in a position to understand C++ openGL programs. (Not that I have a real need too...) And I don't know if JOGL is going to be *the* SUN support API for 3D graphics. So, although I am looking at it, I am not sure its the thing to commit myself to. (Causing me delays.) I am amazed and disappointed that it takes so much effect to code a simple "display these objects as they would appear in the real world and let me interact with them" kind of program. I was well on my way to having such a system (minus transparent objects) and now I am blown out of the water. I would have liked to have seen Java 3D use openGL and allow programmers to make direct openGL calls. (Not that *I* needed it.) And I would have liked to see a higher level on top of Java 3D. I've been set back a least a good 8 months..... Longer if I don't get commitments on what SUN is going to do/support. I am not happy about having to learn openGL. :( (or any low level graphics API.) If anyone knows of another high-level API, please let me know. Makes me wish I had learned C++ openGL 3 years ago instead of commiting myself to the "cross platform and runs through simple web pages" Java dream. Cheers, Bob Gray ginal Message----- From: Discussion list for Java 3D API [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Justin Couch Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JAVA3D] What do you want/need from Java3D? As many of you know, I've been involved with Java3D for a very long period of time. This has given me, and consequently my company (we' a small contracting shop) access to many different people within Sun. Right now, we find ourselves in an interesting position with regards to the whole Java and 3D graphics community. There will be more announcements and so forth over the next week or two, but now I have a specific request of the Java3D community to provide us with feedback, that we can then pass on, and hopefully help make a difference. Let's start with the assumption that Sun is no longer, and will never be supporting Java3D. There is a body of code lying dormant inside Sun. Now, look to the future. What I am seeking is as many responses as possible from everyone here, either private or public about what your future holds either definitely or as a wish list, with respect to Java3D. Both positive and negative comments are encouraged. I specifically looking for answers on what you would prefer to happen. Here are some different responses that I'm thinking people could give: - Java3D is not useful in any way to my projects. I've left it for something else (eg Xith3D or LWJGL because you are gaming oriented). Better off to leave it to wither on the vine. - It's a good thing and I use it in many of my projects. If someone was out there actively supporting it, we would continue to use it. I don't really care what the codebase is doing, so long as it is actively being developed. - Chunks of Java3D are of particular interest to me. It would be really good if I could have parts X, Y and Z were released as open source. - I'd like Java3D to be completely open sourced so that I can take it and support/develop it myself. I'm not really interested in long term someone else support, but with the source code available, my own projects can continue to move forward. - I'd like Java3D to be completely open sourced, but really I want someone to be a steward of the codebase to make sure that there is a central "reference" implementation to work with. Alternatively, we could pay someone else to do the maintenance on it. I'd like to recommend that you consider ABC Company/Consortium be given the code to work with. - If I had access to the source, I'd like to help develop it further along the direction of product market LMN (eg CAD-specific or SciViz). - It's of mild interest to me. I was planning on moving off it, but if it was open sourced, then we would hang around and continue to use it. - Having the code there as a reference would be really useful to me. I already have plans to build my own scene graph/rendering engine, and don't really plan to use Java3D code directly, but knowing some of the design decisions would be really handy. I'd appreciate it if in your response you could give some small background of the type of projects you are using it for. For example - a university, so it is being used as a teach tool or visualisation engine for experimentation. Note that myself and Yumetech are not wanting to use this information to market to you or anything like that. We're in a position to provide a case to Sun about what to do with their code. We're basically going to package up the replies, put a summary on it about the general mood expressed and then chat about the results with the appropriate people in Sun. Sun is a big an varied company, with not all parts marching to the same tune. They're interesting in working out what the current business cases are surrounding Java3D. They are certainly not even remotely considering Sun putting any engineering resources into continuing Java3D development, but they are looking at whether it is worthwhile helping others to do so. We're certainly not looking for a specific response like "please open source it" - if the majority of people really couldn't care less about Java3D, then we'll pass that along too. Please feel free to pass this message along to anyone that you feel may want to respond - particularly if you know of people that have already moved away from Java3D and are no longer on this list. I'll be posting this to the javagaming site later this evening. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/ Java Architect & Bit Twiddler http://www.yumetech.com/ Author, Java 3D FAQ Maintainer http://www.j3d.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Humanism is dead. Animals think, feel; so do machines now. Neither man nor woman is the measure of all things. 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