> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of marc fleury
> Sent: 07 February 2001 18:18
> To: jBoss Developer
> Subject: RE: [jBoss-Dev] Sun ONE response to MS
>
>
> well ok...
>
> there was a thread on /. 2 days ago about people abandoning linux on the
> client and going with windows. well duh! I dropped linux on my laptop and
> work primarily on a win2000 VAIO bad ass machine that I am VERY
> happy with.
>
> My server? linux. They come with win2000 I put linux on them. Why? cause
> it stable, manageable remote, comes with all the goodies I want
> and I (now)
> know how to secure them easily. Ease of use, ease of use.
I'm Win2K all the way for the same reasons funnily enough. With the in-built
Terminal Services (think X-Windows client/server) I can remotely do whatever
I want till the cows come home. It isn't free and it's closed source but
nothing is perfect right ;-)
> That is the one thing that I find funny in this new battlefield.
> Microsoft
> has a tradition of "eating from the bottom" and they are finding
> themselves
> eaten ALIVE by small linux servers. I was reading a "analyst" calling
> win2000 a "failure" because it was "failing" to kill the server market and
> few sites with *nix where switching to win2000.
It sells in awfully large numbers for a failure. It definitely outsells all
Unixes combined (if you discount Linux since total sales/usage figures are
hard to come by for Linux). I am referring just to Win2KServer sales not
Win2K professional.
> They bet the farm on win2000 as a IT server OS. At the top they have
> Solaris at the bottom they have Linux. Are they "irrelevant" on
> the server
> side technology standard driving????
At the top they have MVS, OS/390, AS/400s....and don't laugh please Marc
;-)
> Dont get me wrong MS is a mighty company, I love win2000 on my laptop (use
> all day long) and I wouldn't go with Linux on my laptop for anything. But
> most of MS pattern was coming "from behind" leveraging a dominant position
> in the OS CLIENT. (think of Office, Explorer etc).
>
> Where is the dominant position on the SERVER. How much can a client
> monopoly drive SERVER technology. They *obviously* don't really
> understand
> the "service web" despite all the .net noise. The article was answering a
> dummy (i mean the question showed ignorance). So can they
> leverage a CLIENT
> monopoly on the SERVER? well it seems NOT MUCH. HTML as a
> client standard
> has made MS irrelevant. XML as a data formatting standard is making
> proprietary formats of storage irrelevant (blurb about Balmer putting his
> foot in his mouth).
MS isn't irrelvant yet. HTML/XML haven't changed MS's position much. In fact
I'd say given the outcome of the stupid "browser war" MS has shown itself to
be a true fighter and (can I use this) innovative when it needs to be. If
you don't agree have a quick look at the *first* version of IE4 .vs. the
latest version of Netscape4. (I await a stable Mozilla/NS6 eagerly for the
standards compilance).
> Finally J2EE is today 90% of the market place for APPLICATION SERVERS IN
> GENERAL (all categories C server, C++) where is the dominant
> position there
> as well to drive their standards?
Uhmm?
> So I believe microsoft is *almost* irrelevant ;) on the web. Customers
> won't go in a "lock-in" on server because win2000 isn't going
> places there,
> linux is, solaris will remain. So their traditional "patterns" are not
> applicable anymore. I trust them to find something interesting
> but I am not
> shaking in my boots *yet*.
Don't agree but I think J2EE is "open coolness"...
> Ok onto SUN. SUN KNOWS THAT .NET IS A "BOTTOM UP" THREAT AND THAT IBM AND
> BEA ARE NOT GOING TO FIGHT IT OFF. .NET will be a mass market technology,
> J2EE is still "ivory tower IT". Just like Solaris sits on top of
> Unix, BEA
> will sit on top of J2EE. US? WE SIT AT THE BOTTOM AND WORK OUR
> WAY UP, THAT
> IS HOW WE WILL "SQUEEZE" .NET BEFORE IT IS EVEN A SERIOUS THREAT.
>
> WE ARE A NECESSARY LITTLE FIGHTING DOG IN BATTLING .NET.
>
> So SUN has a big interest in helping us thrive we are their best
> and natural
> ally in fighting Windows and .net. you are right in saying that they must
> change their position with respect to Linux and Open Source Java... we are
> working on it, it will come
That Sun would most like to be MS is a reality most MS critics do not
confront or believe.
.NET *will* be successful because (a) it is very good and (b) MS will tear
itself apart to ensure it does.
There isn't a J2EE or .NET scenario, people change partners, religions, jobs
easier than they change sides in the "MS .vs. Current Messiah" debate. What
I see is this, how would they interoperate and the answer is the
Sun-inspired XML project and the MS-inspired SOAP.
As long as we have those firmly supported, we have nothing to fear from the
fallout of the hype-wars.
Cheers!,
Micheal
>
>
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter F. Spicer
> |Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:11 AM
> |To: jBoss Developer
> |Subject: RE: [jBoss-Dev] Sun ONE response to MS
> |
> |
> |Microsoft is doing some interesting things with the .NET
> platform, some of
> |which (actually a large part of which) is based on the precepts
> of the EJB
> |architecture ('attribute' based programming and the like). As far as
> |competition is concerned they are talented and aggressive. The
> |responses in
> |the link are good - but this guy is light weight so no victories gained.
> |
> |The bigger issue for the Java community is will it survive? -
> looks like it
> |will right now, but it is 'closed', Sun has control and MS is putting
> |together frameworks which allow the ingest and conversion of Java
> |technologies to their platform (COM+). Once this is complete,
> the millions
> |of windows folks will not need to switch - which is OK. BUT, market
> |pressures may force us to switch. Hence MS does the usual end-run
> |(Browser,
> |OpenGL, ....). Sun should let go or at least modify their
> current strategy
> |v. Linux and Java.
> |
> |BTW, check out the unification of the object models across all languages
> |(and extension to same) on the .NET platform - a slick piece of software
> |engineering.
> |
> |Sun BTW is also wrong about the relationship of software to
> hardware - just
> |because the interconnects become transparent does not change the
> |fundamental
> |equation.
> |
> |-- Peter
> |
> |-----Original Message-----
> |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rickard Öberg
> |Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 6:38 AM
> |To: jBoss Developer
> |Subject: [jBoss-Dev] Sun ONE response to MS
> |
> |
> |Hey
> |
> |In case you haven't seen this:
> |http://www.sun.com/dot-com/realitycheck/headsup010205.html
> |
> |"So.. do you feel lucky.. punk!" "Kablaaam"
> |
> |Well.. uhm.. I thought it was funny anyway :-)
> |
> |regards,
> | Rickard
> |
> |--
> |Rickard Öberg
> |
> |Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |
> |
> |
>
>
