Hi Simon
Simon Helsen wrote:
Paolo,
1) individuals compose ASF: yes, great, but let's not kid ourselves. We
are all in it because we are serving something else, usually a company.
This is not some utopian world. These companies provide limitations and
opportunities. In your case, they donate time for you to contribute, in my
case, they donate limited time to give feedback on issues found.
I disagree (and I am not in the office right now).
ASF is real, not an "utopian world" and not everybody involved do so because
of their employer. They participate as individuals for all sort of reasons
including, probably, because they enjoy it.
I did not write the document on how Apache works, but I fully agree with
the principles (and sometimes I remind those to people): "affiliations
do not cloud the personal contributions" and "meritocracy".
These are two of my favorites, I strongly believe in those and the more
someone put them under the carpet the more I remind them to him/her. :-)
I understand you want the bugs fixed. Me too.
2) I have provided patches to bugs before (there was a notorious one early
in 2011, but before Jira - Andy knows all about it).
Thanks.
Not for these ones,
sure, but I just don't understand enough of the code for that. It is
extremely complex stuff.
Yes. I am often in your same position and the learning curve can be steep.
> And I have provided patches to test cases and in
Jena-131 I provide a patch which illustrates the problem. Again, you just
cannot expect that each bug report comes with a test case and a fix before
you even look at it.
I've never said that each bug report should come with a test case and a fix
before I even look at it. I do not expect that.
However, I welcome (not expect or pretend) help such the help you provided
yesterday with your comment on JENA-131.
That undermines the quality of the product, which
again, is something we all share
If there is one thing we absolutely all agree here is "high quality software",
we all want that.
3) with all of these messages, you are pushing back and I don't know why.
I am not pushing back, I am pulling you in. :-)
I don't see how anyone benefits from this. So far, you have not said
anything I don't already know (e.g. that having a test case helps and
having a patch more). I have explained what I've done and why. In the mean
time, I provided more information for Jena-131 and the only thing you come
back with is some philosophical discussion on the nature of ASF. I would
appreciate it if you or whoever wrote the original code to look why there
is concurrent access to the Iterator.remove(...). It may, as Andy pointed
out, show a deeper problem, which would be in everyone's interest to
resolve.
I will be able to spend more time investigating this when I am back from
ApacheCon (i.e. the week after the next)... if it is still open. :-)
Paolo
thanks
Simon
From:
Paolo Castagna <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Date:
11/04/2011 04:23 PM
Subject:
Re: What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release?
Hi Simon
Simon Helsen wrote:
Paolo,
I am not sure what are you trying to say with your message here. I
realize
that open source projects don't come for free. I also realize that not
all
bugs get fixed either. However, the existence and viability of open
source
is based on a mutual benefit of the parties involved (see [3]) and I
think
you are seeing benefits from my testing work.
True. Fact.
But, so far, no patches to bugs in TDB. Another fact.
IBM
Individuals compose the ASF
"All of the ASF including the board, the other officers, the committers,
and the members, are participating as individuals. That is one strength
of the ASF, affiliations do not cloud the personal contributions."
-- http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
has a long history in
supporting open source initiatives wherever appropriate and possible,
whether this is something like the Eclipse Foundation or the Apache
Foundation itself (with countless donations and being a gold sponsor).
This support benefits you probably at this very moment, e.g. if you are
developing in Eclipse.
In this particular instance (i.e. Jena), we are extensively testing new
TxTDB code and providing feedback.
Thanks.
We may or may not adopt it, depending
on the outcome of our tests (and a bunch of other factors of course), so
this feedback may not even benefit us. The problems I am running into
will
almost certainly come back to you. We are just providing early discovery
and I do what I can to help get them resolved.
Thanks.
I am pressing
Pressing does not fix bugs faster.
Small reproducible test cases help.
Patches incredibly speed up the overall process! :-)
for them to
be resolved because if they are not, it is going to be a pain for me to
adopt it because of the enormous time it takes to adopt just about
anything open-source related in IBM. We have lawyers literally going
over
all the code and we cannot decide on short notice to upgrade or adopt a
new version of any project like this. It just doesn't work like that. I
looked at [2] and I am not sure what you are missing?
See above.
I also respect the work done in Jena and I wish I could leverage more
resources, but those are not my decisions. If we do end up adopting, I
may
be able to convince my line management to invest more (including more
time
for myself as well as perhaps hiring the services of certain companies
involved with Jena). We analyze these things constantly.
You have a nice weekend as well,
Thanks.
Simon
PS: on a Friday night, I would probably not even work on [1], but I hope
that on a Monday morning [4] becomes an interesting challenge in
achieving
"consistently high quality software " as pointed out in [5] under
Phylosophy
You certainly, as an individual, can help on "consistently high quality
software". :-)
Paolo
[4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-131
[5] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management
From:
Paolo Castagna <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Date:
11/04/2011 03:06 PM
Subject:
Re: What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release?
Hi,
on a side note (it's Friday evening here, so maybe now I'll be doing
something
"fun" [1]), it's great to report bugs and provide feedback in general.
I do sometimes report bugs to open source projects I use. If I am able,
I
submit
a patch, but I do not pretend or assume that just because I reported a
bug, the
bug will be fixed. It's does not work like that. It depends on
individuals
and
here in Apache we are all individuals.
The "getting involved" [2] page on the Apache Jena website tries to show
people
the path: submit bug reports/feedback >> use the SNAPSHOTs to stay on
the
bleeding edge >> checkout the sources and get used to it >> look around
at
the
other open issues >> find something you care about or like and submit a
patch
(repeat, repeat, ...) >> engage with other committers more >> learn more
about
Apache and how it works >> ...
One of the principle in Apache is "meritocracy: literally, government by
merit"
[3]. I think it's a good one, one I believe in.
Have a nice week-end,
Paolo
[1]
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/TDB/branches/hash-ids/
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/jena/getting_involved/
[3] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy
Simon Helsen wrote:
I would like to see both
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-131
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-143
resolved
I provided input for 131 - I still have to try to produce a test-case
for
143, but depending on the origin of 131, it may be connected to the
problem in 143
thanks
Simon
From:
Paolo Castagna <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Date:
11/04/2011 09:21 AM
Subject:
What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release?
Hi,
today, I have time to work on Jena.
What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release?
Paolo
