thanks Paolo, I think we're getting back to the actually issue. If you have any suggestions on what else I can do to resolve 131, let me know. I will probably try to construct a test-case for 143 at some point as well, but I am going to wait out the result of 131 because there may still be a connection. Enjoy ApacheCon!
Simon From: Paolo Castagna <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: 11/04/2011 06:35 PM Subject: Re: What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release? Hi Simon Simon Helsen wrote: > Paolo, > > 1) individuals compose ASF: yes, great, but let's not kid ourselves. We > are all in it because we are serving something else, usually a company. > This is not some utopian world. These companies provide limitations and > opportunities. In your case, they donate time for you to contribute, in my > case, they donate limited time to give feedback on issues found. I disagree (and I am not in the office right now). ASF is real, not an "utopian world" and not everybody involved do so because of their employer. They participate as individuals for all sort of reasons including, probably, because they enjoy it. I did not write the document on how Apache works, but I fully agree with the principles (and sometimes I remind those to people): "affiliations do not cloud the personal contributions" and "meritocracy". These are two of my favorites, I strongly believe in those and the more someone put them under the carpet the more I remind them to him/her. :-) I understand you want the bugs fixed. Me too. > 2) I have provided patches to bugs before (there was a notorious one early > in 2011, but before Jira - Andy knows all about it). Thanks. > Not for these ones, > sure, but I just don't understand enough of the code for that. It is > extremely complex stuff. Yes. I am often in your same position and the learning curve can be steep. > And I have provided patches to test cases and in > Jena-131 I provide a patch which illustrates the problem. Again, you just > cannot expect that each bug report comes with a test case and a fix before > you even look at it. I've never said that each bug report should come with a test case and a fix before I even look at it. I do not expect that. However, I welcome (not expect or pretend) help such the help you provided yesterday with your comment on JENA-131. > That undermines the quality of the product, which > again, is something we all share If there is one thing we absolutely all agree here is "high quality software", we all want that. > 3) with all of these messages, you are pushing back and I don't know why. I am not pushing back, I am pulling you in. :-) > I don't see how anyone benefits from this. So far, you have not said > anything I don't already know (e.g. that having a test case helps and > having a patch more). I have explained what I've done and why. In the mean > time, I provided more information for Jena-131 and the only thing you come > back with is some philosophical discussion on the nature of ASF. I would > appreciate it if you or whoever wrote the original code to look why there > is concurrent access to the Iterator.remove(...). It may, as Andy pointed > out, show a deeper problem, which would be in everyone's interest to > resolve. I will be able to spend more time investigating this when I am back from ApacheCon (i.e. the week after the next)... if it is still open. :-) Paolo > > thanks > > Simon > > > > > From: > Paolo Castagna <[email protected]> > To: > [email protected] > Date: > 11/04/2011 04:23 PM > Subject: > Re: What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release? > > > > Hi Simon > > Simon Helsen wrote: >> Paolo, >> >> I am not sure what are you trying to say with your message here. I > realize >> that open source projects don't come for free. I also realize that not > all >> bugs get fixed either. However, the existence and viability of open > source >> is based on a mutual benefit of the parties involved (see [3]) and I > think >> you are seeing benefits from my testing work. > > True. Fact. > But, so far, no patches to bugs in TDB. Another fact. > >> IBM > > Individuals compose the ASF > > "All of the ASF including the board, the other officers, the committers, > and the members, are participating as individuals. That is one strength > of the ASF, affiliations do not cloud the personal contributions." > -- http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > >> has a long history in >> supporting open source initiatives wherever appropriate and possible, >> whether this is something like the Eclipse Foundation or the Apache >> Foundation itself (with countless donations and being a gold sponsor). >> This support benefits you probably at this very moment, e.g. if you are >> developing in Eclipse. >> >> In this particular instance (i.e. Jena), we are extensively testing new >> TxTDB code and providing feedback. > > Thanks. > >> We may or may not adopt it, depending >> on the outcome of our tests (and a bunch of other factors of course), so > >> this feedback may not even benefit us. The problems I am running into > will >> almost certainly come back to you. We are just providing early discovery > >> and I do what I can to help get them resolved. > > Thanks. > >> I am pressing > > Pressing does not fix bugs faster. > > Small reproducible test cases help. > Patches incredibly speed up the overall process! :-) > >> for them to >> be resolved because if they are not, it is going to be a pain for me to >> adopt it because of the enormous time it takes to adopt just about >> anything open-source related in IBM. We have lawyers literally going > over >> all the code and we cannot decide on short notice to upgrade or adopt a >> new version of any project like this. It just doesn't work like that. I >> looked at [2] and I am not sure what you are missing? > > See above. > >> I also respect the work done in Jena and I wish I could leverage more >> resources, but those are not my decisions. If we do end up adopting, I > may >> be able to convince my line management to invest more (including more > time >> for myself as well as perhaps hiring the services of certain companies >> involved with Jena). We analyze these things constantly. >> >> You have a nice weekend as well, > > Thanks. > >> Simon >> >> PS: on a Friday night, I would probably not even work on [1], but I hope > >> that on a Monday morning [4] becomes an interesting challenge in > achieving >> "consistently high quality software " as pointed out in [5] under >> Phylosophy > > You certainly, as an individual, can help on "consistently high quality > software". :-) > > Paolo > >> [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-131 >> [5] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management >> >> >> >> From: >> Paolo Castagna <[email protected]> >> To: >> [email protected] >> Date: >> 11/04/2011 03:06 PM >> Subject: >> Re: What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release? >> >> >> >> Hi, >> on a side note (it's Friday evening here, so maybe now I'll be doing >> something >> "fun" [1]), it's great to report bugs and provide feedback in general. >> >> I do sometimes report bugs to open source projects I use. If I am able, > I >> submit >> a patch, but I do not pretend or assume that just because I reported a >> bug, the >> bug will be fixed. It's does not work like that. It depends on > individuals >> and >> here in Apache we are all individuals. >> >> The "getting involved" [2] page on the Apache Jena website tries to show > >> people >> the path: submit bug reports/feedback >> use the SNAPSHOTs to stay on > the >> bleeding edge >> checkout the sources and get used to it >> look around > at >> the >> other open issues >> find something you care about or like and submit a >> patch >> (repeat, repeat, ...) >> engage with other committers more >> learn more > >> about >> Apache and how it works >> ... >> >> One of the principle in Apache is "meritocracy: literally, government by > >> merit" >> [3]. I think it's a good one, one I believe in. >> >> Have a nice week-end, >> Paolo >> >> [1] >> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/jena/Jena2/TDB/branches/hash-ids/ > >> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/jena/getting_involved/ >> [3] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy >> >> >> Simon Helsen wrote: >>> I would like to see both >>> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-131 >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-143 >>> >>> resolved >>> >>> I provided input for 131 - I still have to try to produce a test-case >> for >>> 143, but depending on the origin of 131, it may be connected to the >>> problem in 143 >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: >>> Paolo Castagna <[email protected]> >>> To: >>> [email protected] >>> Date: >>> 11/04/2011 09:21 AM >>> Subject: >>> What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> today, I have time to work on Jena. >>> >>> What are the JIRA issues to fix before a release? >>> >>> Paolo >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
