Hey Dennis, this is Timothy here again in Huntsville. I agree with you on
all points. Those assets do far outweigh the problems that might pop up. As
I said before not knocking window-Eyes, or any other screenreader, but I too
have tried the competition and have returned back to the old faithfull for
numerous reasons, one for the braille display support, two for the N T
support, and three for the overall power that Jfw has. I however am still
learning about scripts, and will admit there are some things that I do not
know but I'm still working on them. As I said, I do keep both around here at
the University, and on the same system, but my personal preference is Jfw.
We've got some students since 3.3135 has come out that is now seeing the
power and potential of Jfw and are amazed at what it did. For a while I just
thought they were playing actch up, and weren'
t really all that, but my song has changed in seeing how well it runs now,
and how much quicker and more efficient I can get things done. Peter is
probably going to kill us on other lists I do agree, but if he does, there
will be more blood and he'll have to cleanit all up. That might not be
pleasant. Thanks and have a great morning. I'm still trying to wake up here
with my big mug of coffee in front of me. No, don't worry, it isn't getting
on the power Braille.
Timothy Emmons Adaptive Technologies Consultant for the uNiversity of
Alabama in Huntsville
M Louis Salmon Library Huntsville Alabama, 35899, phone: 256-890-6863, fax:
256-890-6083.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Brown--dbTech! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> Hello emmonst,
>
> Being misquoted quite a bit in both print and E-mail, I've come to expect
> it, but it still causes my blood pressure to leap, just at the total lack
of
> integrity of people that do such things!
> I use to be one of HJ's largest critics, but have since changed my tune
> drastically", and don't mind admitting I was wrong in most cases! There
are
> still issues that I don't agree with, but I believe the level of access
> afforded, and the power of the scripting features, sets JFW above the
other
> packages in several key categories.
> Window Eyes is a really nice, relatively powerful, user-friendly screen
> reader, but it doesn't have the power given in the JAWS scripts.
> A couple of my whining about HJ is the need for more-detailed information
on
> *every* script and function available, not just a small one/two-liner
> mention within the script editor presented when you select that particular
> function from the list of some 400 plus scripts! These scripts are
> extremely powerful, but that lack of detailed information makes you feel
> like you're driving a high-power sports car governed to go only half it's
> capable speed!
> I'm constantly stumbling over routine functions and uses that I didn't
know
> were available, and in some cases, were the difference in scripts working
> correctly or not!
> There seems to be only a couple of the gurus at HJ that know the full
> potential of these scripts, but doesn't have the time to document them
> fully--which is one of the main contributing factors to the
> "Script-intimidation" level felt by new users looking at the scripting
> language for the first time! Sure hope those few chosen gurus don't ever
> get hit by a truck on the way home--we'll all be in a world of hurt!
> The other whining item is the support response; whether justified or not,
> the HJ support staff take a beating on the support-side of the coin. I
> think it is because JFW has been such a big success, the amount of support
> staff isn't growing as fast as the product. They have a good many techs,
> but on a ratio of user-to-tech, it is an astounding number! Last I heard,
> (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), the number of support staff,
> (counting the ones that are their for support only, and not development,
> etc.), was 14, and the probable user count was somewhere above 35k; that
is
> 2500+ users per tech! Of course, you'll never get that many requests for
> support at one time, that is still a lot, considering the tech has to
> research every item.
> Still, giving credit where credit is due, HJ support staff are some of the
> best in the business, and they aren't the cause of the discontent by the
> users that do bash them. When you get to be a corporation with thousands
> and thousands of users, you have to have some type of regimented system to
> handle each claim efficiently, even though it sometimes seems to some
people
> that they have been given a number in place of their name. Other
developers
> don't have this problem mainly because they don't have such a large
> user-base.
> At any rate...I do hate sending questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and in a lot
of
> cases have the answer returned either in several days, or not at all! By
> the time those particular answers arrive, I've had to do some trial nd
> error scripting to fix whatever it was I sent the question on! If scripts
> is going to be the main meat and potatoes of the screen reader, then they
> need support in likewise proportion--after all, the scripts are what the
> power of JFW is based on; it allows more flexibility in difficult
> situations, it allows menu creation for those inaccessible buttons that
have
> no keystroke access, it allows the user to reach a level of confidence
> testing new applications that the others don't offer, and on and on! I
hate
> to see it get the minimal support-resources it seems to be getting at
> present, and I'll probably take heat about that statement, but that is
just
> the results I've experienced in that area, having to wind up e-mailing the
> upper echelon to get answers that is outside their job description!
> Give me a detailed script/function reference manual, and a question
answered
> now and then, and I'm a fat happy camper, off in my little script-filled
> world!
> And before Peter decides to plaster this on all the other lists--no doubt
> out of context--I want to go on record as saying that JFW is my chosen
> screen reader, chiefly due to the power of the scripts; it has it's
faults,
> but it's assets far outweigh those faults! I've used other screen
readers,
> trying to get them to do what I was able to do with JFW to a particular
> application, and it just didn't work. I'm not bashing HJ, nor am I
bashing
> the others, I'm just saying what I feel about the comparison between the
> different readers, from a power-user's view. If I've stepped on some
toes,
> it wasn't in a spiteful manner, just an opinion.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: emmonst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
>
>
> > I have to agree with you Jim. I too have tried the competition, and keep
> the
> > other one here at the University since I have a couple of students who
are
> > familiar with it, and so, mgith have questions about it. But, personally
I
> > agree that this is the top screen reader for many reasons of which are
> > obious. The fact that you can customize it the way you can is definitely
a
> > big attractor. The only thing about this screenreader that drives me
crazy
> > sometimes is the fact of the authorization disk. The authorization makes
> me
> > crazy when A it doesn't work as it's supposed too, B when you install,
the
> > software sometimes seems like it thinks if you don't install it you are
> > stealing it or something. But, that's a minor thing, compared to the
> power
> > and flexibility that it has. I wondered there for a while, but 331.35
has
> > changed my mind and that's all I use. The lab here at the University has
> > just got it installed, and some of the students who have used the other
> one,
> > or haven't used anything really are impressed to the point of
considering
> it
> > as their own use. It is defintely more stable than it used to be. I hope
> Hj
> > keeps up the good work, and I will be carefull of lurking opportunists.
I
> > have seen them on other lists as well. I hope one of them doesn't get me
> on
> > here for this. Talk to you guys later.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:13 AM
> > Subject: Opportunists are Lerking
> >
> >
> > > A warning too all of you.
> > >
> > > I think I have become famous, now that my comments have appeared in
the
> > > WyfiWyg so-called news letter.
> > >
> > > Several weeks ago, I posted some comments here expressing my concerns
> > > that HJ was not taking the necessary steps to prevent loss of quality
as
> > > they brought out new releases. In those remarks, I said, among other
> > > things, that quality was a general problem throughout this industry
> > > (meaning PC software in general), but that a screen reader was more
> > > important to the blind user than your typical application because it
was
> > > the window through which all other things passed. So, I reasoned, a
> > > screen reader must exhibit better than normal quality.
> > >
> > > My comments were not balanced. They were, in fact, deliberately
focused
> > > on the problem of quality to raise public awareness of quality as a
key
> > > factor in our strategy for success in all our lives. My target
audience
> > > was, not only members of this list, people who are familiar with Jaws
> and
> > > it's tremendous capabilities, but the staff of HJ itself. I wished to
> > > create an atmosphere where excellence was a primary goal for all
> > > concerned, so that programs and procedures would be put in place to
> > > insure improvement in this area. I pointed out some ways in which
this
> > > might be accomplished. But, I did not focus heavily on why JFW is the
> > > best screen reader available, although I clearly do think it is. I
> > > thought everybody knew that, so it did not bear repeating. My target
> > > audience was not the general population of uncommitted future screen
> > > reader users.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately for me, peter Duran, an obvious Jaws detractor, was
> lurking
> > > on the list. He chose to lift my remarks, without my permission or
> > > knowledge, and reproduce them in his WyfiRag publication. He framed
my
> > > remarks in a light obviously intended to cast aspersions on the JFW
> > > product, presumably in favor of his own favorite screen reader. This
> was
> > > never my intent, and violates my own wishes.
> > >
> > > So, a warning to all of you who like to sound off on various issues
from
> > > time to time. Remember that Peter is lurking, and he and his kind are
> > > not above appropriating your remarks for their own purposes if it
suits
> > > them. This has caused some political problems for me, a fact Peter
> > > surely failed to consider, or, perhaps, chose to ignore.
> > >
> > > I do not retract anything I said in that posting. I think quality is
a
> > > serious issue. But, I have since learned that important strides in
that
> > > direction are being made at HJ, the benefits of which those of us who
> use
> > > the world's most powerful screen reader will definitely enjoy.
> > >
> > > For the record, I have tried the competition, and I am convinced that
> JFW
> > > is the best screen reader available. With it's terrific grade 2
Braille
> > > support through which you actually can "Feel What You Get", and it's
> > > unique and incredibly powerful script language through which you can
> > > customize the interface to your favorite application for optimal
> > > efficiency and maximum productivity, JFW is clearly the best choice.
No
> > > other screen reader does all of that. That is why I push as hard as I
do
> > > to make it even better.
> > >
> > > Peter, if you would like to quote the above in your next edition, just
> > > contact me.
> > >
> > > Jim Snowbarger
> > >
> > > -
> > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > >
> >
> > -
> > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> >
>
> -
> Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
>
-
Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
