Glad to hear that news, Dennis. I just bet that we all have you
to thank working behind the scenes for that improved communication with
those marvelous script writers. thanks to them, i enjoyed I E 5 for 6
months prior to version 331.
Well done.
I would also wish to comment briefly on the previous good reviews that you
gave JAWS software. "Ditto". And to your suggestions as to improve the fine
product, I would add this one. It would really help if at the beginning of a
new version's use that some one at HJ might give more contextual
instructions *beyond the "help Files" (which I now have thanks to the C
D). I experienced the worst of all worlds minus Help Files for a while
from the downloaded 331. And as some of you may recall, I received 7
variants on 3 different methods of using the web page to read from one
page onto another in Version 331. The point is that even if I felt I looked
a little "stupid" in asking the question, I needed--and I believe--that
others need actual "examples" posted to this list that go beyond one line
definitions of keystrokes.
I appreciate the functionality of JAWs and those kind people who last week
end gave me contextual help .
Keep up the good work, Dennis..
Have a great day.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Brown--dbTech! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> Hello emmonst,
>
> What is most important is that HJ is taking active steps to fix their
> problems, and not just sweeping it under the rug. I've been informed that
> the previously luke-warm [EMAIL PROTECTED] has been fired up with positive
> answers, and willingness to get those answers to the Script-guru
candidates,
> and we should be seeing some really fast turnarounds at that post! That
is
> some good news! You got to like a company that will admit they are not
> perfect, but yet keep striving to be!
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: emmonst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
>
>
> > Hey Dennis, this is Timothy here again in Huntsville. I agree with you
on
> > all points. Those assets do far outweigh the problems that might pop up.
> As
> > I said before not knocking window-Eyes, or any other screenreader, but I
> too
> > have tried the competition and have returned back to the old faithfull
for
> > numerous reasons, one for the braille display support, two for the N T
> > support, and three for the overall power that Jfw has. I however am
still
> > learning about scripts, and will admit there are some things that I do
not
> > know but I'm still working on them. As I said, I do keep both around
here
> at
> > the University, and on the same system, but my personal preference is
Jfw.
> > We've got some students since 3.3135 has come out that is now seeing the
> > power and potential of Jfw and are amazed at what it did. For a while I
> just
> > thought they were playing actch up, and weren'
> > t really all that, but my song has changed in seeing how well it runs
now,
> > and how much quicker and more efficient I can get things done. Peter is
> > probably going to kill us on other lists I do agree, but if he does,
there
> > will be more blood and he'll have to cleanit all up. That might not be
> > pleasant. Thanks and have a great morning. I'm still trying to wake up
> here
> > with my big mug of coffee in front of me. No, don't worry, it isn't
> getting
> > on the power Braille.
> >
> > Timothy Emmons Adaptive Technologies Consultant for the uNiversity of
> > Alabama in Huntsville
> > M Louis Salmon Library Huntsville Alabama, 35899, phone: 256-890-6863,
> fax:
> > 256-890-6083.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Brown--dbTech! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> >
> >
> > > Hello emmonst,
> > >
> > > Being misquoted quite a bit in both print and E-mail, I've come to
> expect
> > > it, but it still causes my blood pressure to leap, just at the total
> lack
> > of
> > > integrity of people that do such things!
> > > I use to be one of HJ's largest critics, but have since changed my
tune
> > > drastically", and don't mind admitting I was wrong in most cases!
There
> > are
> > > still issues that I don't agree with, but I believe the level of
access
> > > afforded, and the power of the scripting features, sets JFW above the
> > other
> > > packages in several key categories.
> > > Window Eyes is a really nice, relatively powerful, user-friendly
screen
> > > reader, but it doesn't have the power given in the JAWS scripts.
> > > A couple of my whining about HJ is the need for more-detailed
> information
> > on
> > > *every* script and function available, not just a small one/two-liner
> > > mention within the script editor presented when you select that
> particular
> > > function from the list of some 400 plus scripts! These scripts are
> > > extremely powerful, but that lack of detailed information makes you
feel
> > > like you're driving a high-power sports car governed to go only half
> it's
> > > capable speed!
> > > I'm constantly stumbling over routine functions and uses that I didn't
> > know
> > > were available, and in some cases, were the difference in scripts
> working
> > > correctly or not!
> > > There seems to be only a couple of the gurus at HJ that know the full
> > > potential of these scripts, but doesn't have the time to document them
> > > fully--which is one of the main contributing factors to the
> > > "Script-intimidation" level felt by new users looking at the scripting
> > > language for the first time! Sure hope those few chosen gurus don't
> ever
> > > get hit by a truck on the way home--we'll all be in a world of hurt!
> > > The other whining item is the support response; whether justified or
> not,
> > > the HJ support staff take a beating on the support-side of the coin.
I
> > > think it is because JFW has been such a big success, the amount of
> support
> > > staff isn't growing as fast as the product. They have a good many
> techs,
> > > but on a ratio of user-to-tech, it is an astounding number! Last I
> heard,
> > > (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), the number of support
> staff,
> > > (counting the ones that are their for support only, and not
development,
> > > etc.), was 14, and the probable user count was somewhere above 35k;
that
> > is
> > > 2500+ users per tech! Of course, you'll never get that many requests
> for
> > > support at one time, that is still a lot, considering the tech has to
> > > research every item.
> > > Still, giving credit where credit is due, HJ support staff are some of
> the
> > > best in the business, and they aren't the cause of the discontent by
the
> > > users that do bash them. When you get to be a corporation with
> thousands
> > > and thousands of users, you have to have some type of regimented
system
> to
> > > handle each claim efficiently, even though it sometimes seems to some
> > people
> > > that they have been given a number in place of their name. Other
> > developers
> > > don't have this problem mainly because they don't have such a large
> > > user-base.
> > > At any rate...I do hate sending questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and in a
lot
> > of
> > > cases have the answer returned either in several days, or not at all!
> By
> > > the time those particular answers arrive, I've had to do some trial
nd
> > > error scripting to fix whatever it was I sent the question on! If
> scripts
> > > is going to be the main meat and potatoes of the screen reader, then
> they
> > > need support in likewise proportion--after all, the scripts are what
the
> > > power of JFW is based on; it allows more flexibility in difficult
> > > situations, it allows menu creation for those inaccessible buttons
that
> > have
> > > no keystroke access, it allows the user to reach a level of confidence
> > > testing new applications that the others don't offer, and on and on!
I
> > hate
> > > to see it get the minimal support-resources it seems to be getting at
> > > present, and I'll probably take heat about that statement, but that is
> > just
> > > the results I've experienced in that area, having to wind up e-mailing
> the
> > > upper echelon to get answers that is outside their job description!
> > > Give me a detailed script/function reference manual, and a question
> > answered
> > > now and then, and I'm a fat happy camper, off in my little
script-filled
> > > world!
> > > And before Peter decides to plaster this on all the other lists--no
> doubt
> > > out of context--I want to go on record as saying that JFW is my chosen
> > > screen reader, chiefly due to the power of the scripts; it has it's
> > faults,
> > > but it's assets far outweigh those faults! I've used other screen
> > readers,
> > > trying to get them to do what I was able to do with JFW to a
particular
> > > application, and it just didn't work. I'm not bashing HJ, nor am I
> > bashing
> > > the others, I'm just saying what I feel about the comparison between
the
> > > different readers, from a power-user's view. If I've stepped on some
> > toes,
> > > it wasn't in a spiteful manner, just an opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: emmonst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have to agree with you Jim. I too have tried the competition, and
> keep
> > > the
> > > > other one here at the University since I have a couple of students
who
> > are
> > > > familiar with it, and so, mgith have questions about it. But,
> personally
> > I
> > > > agree that this is the top screen reader for many reasons of which
are
> > > > obious. The fact that you can customize it the way you can is
> definitely
> > a
> > > > big attractor. The only thing about this screenreader that drives me
> > crazy
> > > > sometimes is the fact of the authorization disk. The authorization
> makes
> > > me
> > > > crazy when A it doesn't work as it's supposed too, B when you
install,
> > the
> > > > software sometimes seems like it thinks if you don't install it you
> are
> > > > stealing it or something. But, that's a minor thing, compared to
the
> > > power
> > > > and flexibility that it has. I wondered there for a while, but
331.35
> > has
> > > > changed my mind and that's all I use. The lab here at the University
> has
> > > > just got it installed, and some of the students who have used the
> other
> > > one,
> > > > or haven't used anything really are impressed to the point of
> > considering
> > > it
> > > > as their own use. It is defintely more stable than it used to be. I
> hope
> > > Hj
> > > > keeps up the good work, and I will be carefull of lurking
> opportunists.
> > I
> > > > have seen them on other lists as well. I hope one of them doesn't
get
> me
> > > on
> > > > here for this. Talk to you guys later.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:13 AM
> > > > Subject: Opportunists are Lerking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A warning too all of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think I have become famous, now that my comments have appeared
in
> > the
> > > > > WyfiWyg so-called news letter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several weeks ago, I posted some comments here expressing my
> concerns
> > > > > that HJ was not taking the necessary steps to prevent loss of
> quality
> > as
> > > > > they brought out new releases. In those remarks, I said, among
> other
> > > > > things, that quality was a general problem throughout this
industry
> > > > > (meaning PC software in general), but that a screen reader was
more
> > > > > important to the blind user than your typical application because
it
> > was
> > > > > the window through which all other things passed. So, I reasoned,
a
> > > > > screen reader must exhibit better than normal quality.
> > > > >
> > > > > My comments were not balanced. They were, in fact, deliberately
> > focused
> > > > > on the problem of quality to raise public awareness of quality as
a
> > key
> > > > > factor in our strategy for success in all our lives. My target
> > audience
> > > > > was, not only members of this list, people who are familiar with
> Jaws
> > > and
> > > > > it's tremendous capabilities, but the staff of HJ itself. I
wished
> to
> > > > > create an atmosphere where excellence was a primary goal for all
> > > > > concerned, so that programs and procedures would be put in place
to
> > > > > insure improvement in this area. I pointed out some ways in which
> > this
> > > > > might be accomplished. But, I did not focus heavily on why JFW is
> the
> > > > > best screen reader available, although I clearly do think it is.
I
> > > > > thought everybody knew that, so it did not bear repeating. My
> target
> > > > > audience was not the general population of uncommitted future
screen
> > > > > reader users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately for me, peter Duran, an obvious Jaws detractor, was
> > > lurking
> > > > > on the list. He chose to lift my remarks, without my permission
or
> > > > > knowledge, and reproduce them in his WyfiRag publication. He
framed
> > my
> > > > > remarks in a light obviously intended to cast aspersions on the
JFW
> > > > > product, presumably in favor of his own favorite screen reader.
> This
> > > was
> > > > > never my intent, and violates my own wishes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, a warning to all of you who like to sound off on various
issues
> > from
> > > > > time to time. Remember that Peter is lurking, and he and his kind
> are
> > > > > not above appropriating your remarks for their own purposes if it
> > suits
> > > > > them. This has caused some political problems for me, a fact
Peter
> > > > > surely failed to consider, or, perhaps, chose to ignore.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not retract anything I said in that posting. I think quality
> is
> > a
> > > > > serious issue. But, I have since learned that important strides
in
> > that
> > > > > direction are being made at HJ, the benefits of which those of us
> who
> > > use
> > > > > the world's most powerful screen reader will definitely enjoy.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record, I have tried the competition, and I am convinced
> that
> > > JFW
> > > > > is the best screen reader available. With it's terrific grade 2
> > Braille
> > > > > support through which you actually can "Feel What You Get", and
it's
> > > > > unique and incredibly powerful script language through which you
can
> > > > > customize the interface to your favorite application for optimal
> > > > > efficiency and maximum productivity, JFW is clearly the best
choice.
> > No
> > > > > other screen reader does all of that. That is why I push as hard
as
> I
> > do
> > > > > to make it even better.
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter, if you would like to quote the above in your next edition,
> just
> > > > > contact me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Snowbarger
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > >
> >
> > -
> > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> >
>
> -
> Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
>
-
Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
