Hello Dennis and good morning. I have to say I can't wait to see what the
script gurrus at Hj turn out. With the power that we have now, it will be
amazing. As I've said, jfw is my personal choice here, for many reasons, but
one example stands out. For some odd reason yesterday, I thought, "Hey, I'll
try Wineyes with Outlook Express and see if I can get through my mail as
quickly as I have been with Jfw. Then I'll take it on the internet and run a
quick comparrison to se what the real deal is now that both are here." Well,
in Outlook Express instead of being able to tab from the message list into
the body of the message, no go. I think you have to actually turn Msaa off
and back on to do that. I then took it on the internet and noticed a big
differenece in loading pages and the speed of that process. I use Jfw in
conjunction with Dec Talk Express and a braille display, and I have to say
that it is starting to run like that high speed sports car I dream about.
(It probably costs as much when you put all of this together, display,
Express, and Jfw, but who's counting.) Actually this is safer than a sports
car for me. Even though I have a perfect driving record and all, my 20/20
vision, or what I like to call the hand-on 10/10 vision sort of stinks. Just
kidding. But, I'm curious to see what things might pop up for scripts. Who
knows, maybe when I'm comfortable with them, I might put some out there. You
never know.
Timothy Emmons Adaptive Technologies Consultant for the University of
Alabama In Huntsville
M Louis Salmon Library Huntsville Alabama, 35899
Phone: 256-890-6863 fax: 256-890-6083.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Brown--dbTech! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> Hello emmonst,
>
> What is most important is that HJ is taking active steps to fix their
> problems, and not just sweeping it under the rug. I've been informed that
> the previously luke-warm [EMAIL PROTECTED] has been fired up with positive
> answers, and willingness to get those answers to the Script-guru
candidates,
> and we should be seeing some really fast turnarounds at that post! That
is
> some good news! You got to like a company that will admit they are not
> perfect, but yet keep striving to be!
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: emmonst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
>
>
> > Hey Dennis, this is Timothy here again in Huntsville. I agree with you
on
> > all points. Those assets do far outweigh the problems that might pop up.
> As
> > I said before not knocking window-Eyes, or any other screenreader, but I
> too
> > have tried the competition and have returned back to the old faithfull
for
> > numerous reasons, one for the braille display support, two for the N T
> > support, and three for the overall power that Jfw has. I however am
still
> > learning about scripts, and will admit there are some things that I do
not
> > know but I'm still working on them. As I said, I do keep both around
here
> at
> > the University, and on the same system, but my personal preference is
Jfw.
> > We've got some students since 3.3135 has come out that is now seeing the
> > power and potential of Jfw and are amazed at what it did. For a while I
> just
> > thought they were playing actch up, and weren'
> > t really all that, but my song has changed in seeing how well it runs
now,
> > and how much quicker and more efficient I can get things done. Peter is
> > probably going to kill us on other lists I do agree, but if he does,
there
> > will be more blood and he'll have to cleanit all up. That might not be
> > pleasant. Thanks and have a great morning. I'm still trying to wake up
> here
> > with my big mug of coffee in front of me. No, don't worry, it isn't
> getting
> > on the power Braille.
> >
> > Timothy Emmons Adaptive Technologies Consultant for the uNiversity of
> > Alabama in Huntsville
> > M Louis Salmon Library Huntsville Alabama, 35899, phone: 256-890-6863,
> fax:
> > 256-890-6083.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Brown--dbTech! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> >
> >
> > > Hello emmonst,
> > >
> > > Being misquoted quite a bit in both print and E-mail, I've come to
> expect
> > > it, but it still causes my blood pressure to leap, just at the total
> lack
> > of
> > > integrity of people that do such things!
> > > I use to be one of HJ's largest critics, but have since changed my
tune
> > > drastically", and don't mind admitting I was wrong in most cases!
There
> > are
> > > still issues that I don't agree with, but I believe the level of
access
> > > afforded, and the power of the scripting features, sets JFW above the
> > other
> > > packages in several key categories.
> > > Window Eyes is a really nice, relatively powerful, user-friendly
screen
> > > reader, but it doesn't have the power given in the JAWS scripts.
> > > A couple of my whining about HJ is the need for more-detailed
> information
> > on
> > > *every* script and function available, not just a small one/two-liner
> > > mention within the script editor presented when you select that
> particular
> > > function from the list of some 400 plus scripts! These scripts are
> > > extremely powerful, but that lack of detailed information makes you
feel
> > > like you're driving a high-power sports car governed to go only half
> it's
> > > capable speed!
> > > I'm constantly stumbling over routine functions and uses that I didn't
> > know
> > > were available, and in some cases, were the difference in scripts
> working
> > > correctly or not!
> > > There seems to be only a couple of the gurus at HJ that know the full
> > > potential of these scripts, but doesn't have the time to document them
> > > fully--which is one of the main contributing factors to the
> > > "Script-intimidation" level felt by new users looking at the scripting
> > > language for the first time! Sure hope those few chosen gurus don't
> ever
> > > get hit by a truck on the way home--we'll all be in a world of hurt!
> > > The other whining item is the support response; whether justified or
> not,
> > > the HJ support staff take a beating on the support-side of the coin.
I
> > > think it is because JFW has been such a big success, the amount of
> support
> > > staff isn't growing as fast as the product. They have a good many
> techs,
> > > but on a ratio of user-to-tech, it is an astounding number! Last I
> heard,
> > > (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), the number of support
> staff,
> > > (counting the ones that are their for support only, and not
development,
> > > etc.), was 14, and the probable user count was somewhere above 35k;
that
> > is
> > > 2500+ users per tech! Of course, you'll never get that many requests
> for
> > > support at one time, that is still a lot, considering the tech has to
> > > research every item.
> > > Still, giving credit where credit is due, HJ support staff are some of
> the
> > > best in the business, and they aren't the cause of the discontent by
the
> > > users that do bash them. When you get to be a corporation with
> thousands
> > > and thousands of users, you have to have some type of regimented
system
> to
> > > handle each claim efficiently, even though it sometimes seems to some
> > people
> > > that they have been given a number in place of their name. Other
> > developers
> > > don't have this problem mainly because they don't have such a large
> > > user-base.
> > > At any rate...I do hate sending questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and in a
lot
> > of
> > > cases have the answer returned either in several days, or not at all!
> By
> > > the time those particular answers arrive, I've had to do some trial
nd
> > > error scripting to fix whatever it was I sent the question on! If
> scripts
> > > is going to be the main meat and potatoes of the screen reader, then
> they
> > > need support in likewise proportion--after all, the scripts are what
the
> > > power of JFW is based on; it allows more flexibility in difficult
> > > situations, it allows menu creation for those inaccessible buttons
that
> > have
> > > no keystroke access, it allows the user to reach a level of confidence
> > > testing new applications that the others don't offer, and on and on!
I
> > hate
> > > to see it get the minimal support-resources it seems to be getting at
> > > present, and I'll probably take heat about that statement, but that is
> > just
> > > the results I've experienced in that area, having to wind up e-mailing
> the
> > > upper echelon to get answers that is outside their job description!
> > > Give me a detailed script/function reference manual, and a question
> > answered
> > > now and then, and I'm a fat happy camper, off in my little
script-filled
> > > world!
> > > And before Peter decides to plaster this on all the other lists--no
> doubt
> > > out of context--I want to go on record as saying that JFW is my chosen
> > > screen reader, chiefly due to the power of the scripts; it has it's
> > faults,
> > > but it's assets far outweigh those faults! I've used other screen
> > readers,
> > > trying to get them to do what I was able to do with JFW to a
particular
> > > application, and it just didn't work. I'm not bashing HJ, nor am I
> > bashing
> > > the others, I'm just saying what I feel about the comparison between
the
> > > different readers, from a power-user's view. If I've stepped on some
> > toes,
> > > it wasn't in a spiteful manner, just an opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dennis Brown, DB Tech! 770-465-9621
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: emmonst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 2:24 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Opportunists are Lerking
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have to agree with you Jim. I too have tried the competition, and
> keep
> > > the
> > > > other one here at the University since I have a couple of students
who
> > are
> > > > familiar with it, and so, mgith have questions about it. But,
> personally
> > I
> > > > agree that this is the top screen reader for many reasons of which
are
> > > > obious. The fact that you can customize it the way you can is
> definitely
> > a
> > > > big attractor. The only thing about this screenreader that drives me
> > crazy
> > > > sometimes is the fact of the authorization disk. The authorization
> makes
> > > me
> > > > crazy when A it doesn't work as it's supposed too, B when you
install,
> > the
> > > > software sometimes seems like it thinks if you don't install it you
> are
> > > > stealing it or something. But, that's a minor thing, compared to
the
> > > power
> > > > and flexibility that it has. I wondered there for a while, but
331.35
> > has
> > > > changed my mind and that's all I use. The lab here at the University
> has
> > > > just got it installed, and some of the students who have used the
> other
> > > one,
> > > > or haven't used anything really are impressed to the point of
> > considering
> > > it
> > > > as their own use. It is defintely more stable than it used to be. I
> hope
> > > Hj
> > > > keeps up the good work, and I will be carefull of lurking
> opportunists.
> > I
> > > > have seen them on other lists as well. I hope one of them doesn't
get
> me
> > > on
> > > > here for this. Talk to you guys later.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 11:13 AM
> > > > Subject: Opportunists are Lerking
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A warning too all of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think I have become famous, now that my comments have appeared
in
> > the
> > > > > WyfiWyg so-called news letter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several weeks ago, I posted some comments here expressing my
> concerns
> > > > > that HJ was not taking the necessary steps to prevent loss of
> quality
> > as
> > > > > they brought out new releases. In those remarks, I said, among
> other
> > > > > things, that quality was a general problem throughout this
industry
> > > > > (meaning PC software in general), but that a screen reader was
more
> > > > > important to the blind user than your typical application because
it
> > was
> > > > > the window through which all other things passed. So, I reasoned,
a
> > > > > screen reader must exhibit better than normal quality.
> > > > >
> > > > > My comments were not balanced. They were, in fact, deliberately
> > focused
> > > > > on the problem of quality to raise public awareness of quality as
a
> > key
> > > > > factor in our strategy for success in all our lives. My target
> > audience
> > > > > was, not only members of this list, people who are familiar with
> Jaws
> > > and
> > > > > it's tremendous capabilities, but the staff of HJ itself. I
wished
> to
> > > > > create an atmosphere where excellence was a primary goal for all
> > > > > concerned, so that programs and procedures would be put in place
to
> > > > > insure improvement in this area. I pointed out some ways in which
> > this
> > > > > might be accomplished. But, I did not focus heavily on why JFW is
> the
> > > > > best screen reader available, although I clearly do think it is.
I
> > > > > thought everybody knew that, so it did not bear repeating. My
> target
> > > > > audience was not the general population of uncommitted future
screen
> > > > > reader users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately for me, peter Duran, an obvious Jaws detractor, was
> > > lurking
> > > > > on the list. He chose to lift my remarks, without my permission
or
> > > > > knowledge, and reproduce them in his WyfiRag publication. He
framed
> > my
> > > > > remarks in a light obviously intended to cast aspersions on the
JFW
> > > > > product, presumably in favor of his own favorite screen reader.
> This
> > > was
> > > > > never my intent, and violates my own wishes.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, a warning to all of you who like to sound off on various
issues
> > from
> > > > > time to time. Remember that Peter is lurking, and he and his kind
> are
> > > > > not above appropriating your remarks for their own purposes if it
> > suits
> > > > > them. This has caused some political problems for me, a fact
Peter
> > > > > surely failed to consider, or, perhaps, chose to ignore.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not retract anything I said in that posting. I think quality
> is
> > a
> > > > > serious issue. But, I have since learned that important strides
in
> > that
> > > > > direction are being made at HJ, the benefits of which those of us
> who
> > > use
> > > > > the world's most powerful screen reader will definitely enjoy.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record, I have tried the competition, and I am convinced
> that
> > > JFW
> > > > > is the best screen reader available. With it's terrific grade 2
> > Braille
> > > > > support through which you actually can "Feel What You Get", and
it's
> > > > > unique and incredibly powerful script language through which you
can
> > > > > customize the interface to your favorite application for optimal
> > > > > efficiency and maximum productivity, JFW is clearly the best
choice.
> > No
> > > > > other screen reader does all of that. That is why I push as hard
as
> I
> > do
> > > > > to make it even better.
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter, if you would like to quote the above in your next edition,
> just
> > > > > contact me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Snowbarger
> > > > >
> > > > > -
> > > > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> > >
> >
> > -
> > Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
> >
>
> -
> Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
>
-
Visit the jfw ml web page: http://jfw.cjb.net
