From: "Richard D. Worth" <rdwo...@gmail.com>
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Octavian Rasnita
<orasn...@gmail.com>wrote:
For example, if a user uses a good mail client, he or she could configure
it so all the messages from the list to go to a specific folder, the
messages that contain some words in the subjects or in the body to go to
another special folder as they arrive, the messages are automaticly
grouped
by conversation, and they can easier be all saved locally or all deleted
(or
individually).
And if a user has a good rss reader they can do the same with a forum.
Also,
There are no good RSS readers. (that work with a screen reader as well as a
mail client).
using rss2email services, they could have the best of both worlds.
I don't know any RSS2email service, but I don't think it offers the same
features like a mailing list, because the user that reads messages can't
reply to a message they receive.
I don't know that they will be disabled, but if not they will be
completely
unmoderated. This means way more spam than before. In addition, many
active
contributors, including jQuery team members, have moved over to the forum,
so there will be a lot less traffic on the mailing lists. People may still
find help and answers, but it won't be the official forum. Just as before
when the mailing list was the official forum, people found answers
elsewhere.
That's OK. Much better than no mailing list at all.
*Tags*
I tag and filter emails, and it's been really nice. But it's always
bothered
me that all the tagging and filtering I do has to be duplicated by
everyone
else consuming the same content. Using tags on the website forum, all this
metadata can be shared.
Most mailing list users just read the messages and post a question when they
want an answer for a specific question. For that type of users the tags are
useless.
*Types*
On the forum, there are 5 type of threads: Discussions, Questions, Ideas,
Problems, and Announcements. These can be selected by the OP and corrected
be a moderator, and searched and filtered on. Another piece of shared
metadata.
I find much easier to use a "Find" in Outlook Express in the saved messages
or even in "Deleted items" where I have tens of thousand messages, and the
results are much more accessible, presented in a standard list that can be
navigated easier than a web page.
*Categories*
Before we had 5 or 6 mailing lists for different sub-topics. Many times a
day as a moderator, I would have to kindly ask someone to move a
discussion
to the correct forum, to keep noise down, to keep the list on-topic, and
to
ensure people saw the question and the answer in the right place, whether
via email or web archive. This was not only a real pain, but it's not that
much fun for anyone involved, especially new users that may not have a
clue
that there's more than one list, or which list to post to: jquery-en,
jquery-dev, jquery-ui, jquery-ui-dev, jquery-a11y, etc. On the new website
forum, not only is it easier to see which top-level forum topics are
available for posting, but if something is posted in the wrong forum, a
moderator can simply select 'Move this topic' and then select the correct
sub-forum. That immediately reflects in any sorting, filtering, or
categorization anyone does. Another piece of shared metadata.
I understand you, but don't present this as an advantage, because it is an
advantage for just a few people, the most helpful people from the list, but
with a zero importance for the tens of thousand list members.
*Status*
In addition to being able to tag, type, and categorize each thread, a
moderator and/or the OP can set the status of a thread. The OP can select
an
answer as the best, meaning future visitors can read 2 messages instead of
20. Moderators can set the status as 'more info needed', closed, answered,
open, in-progress, etc. All these statuses can be used in sorting and
filtering. Another piece of shared metadata.
Like in Wikipedia's case, I never search with Wikipedia's search engine, but
I use Google. If I want to find something regarding JQuery, I will also use
Google, and not just a certain forum. So this feature has a very low
importance. If the web would be as accessible as a desktop app, I would
probably search on a single forum, but it isn't.
Noticing a trend?
*Moderation edit controls*
Posts can be edited. This isn't possible with email, since the message was
already sent. And the web archive stores only the original message. This
needs to be used judiciously, but can be great for fixing typographical
errors, adding some important keywords to a thread topic, fixing some
formatting, etc.
This is not important. I prefer to find something as fast as possible, even
if it contain typographical errors
But I don't find it important probably because I am not a moderator, just
like the case of almost all the list members.
*Permalinks*
Have you ever tried to email someone a google groups mailing list thread?
Nope, I never did it.
A few times I searched the list of messages from a specific mailing list,
and copy/pasted just the relevant part, but I needed to do this for very few
times.
With the web-based forum, while on the thread you want to email or link to
1. Click 'Permalink'
I can't click because I can't use a mouse. I need to press probably tens of
tab keys until I find that link, and if I type too fast I might skip it and
need to tab over the same links for more times.
And after I press enter on that link I would need to jump over more other
page parts until I reach to the real body of the message.
I'm right there with Karl. In fact we were together last week and both
commented that we weren't thrilled about giving up the mailing list and
switching to the forum. And he and I are among the top posters. I was
always
really happy with the mailing list, and pleased with the flexibility it
offered in terms of mail clients. Every user was in complete control of
their experience, and could combine it with experiences they had with
other
mailing lists. I wasn't anxious to give that up for a forum, especially if
it wasn't going to send emails, and let me respond via email. But I'm
coming
around.
One of the compromises of a web-based forum is that the client (the web
browser) you choose is not as significant as the tools provided by the
forum
Oh yes it is, because a web page doesn't offer the same accessibility
features for a screen reader as a desktop app does.
And unfortunately most RSS readers also use a web format, so they are not
better accessible at all.
itself. The website is basically the client for that back-end server data.
And as an end-user, you can only control that inasmuch as you get involved
and provide feedback on what features are important to you. Also, if it's
a
good one, with web services such as RSS, APIs, advanced search, RESTful
urls, you could make your own clients, web browser/site or otherwise.
If this forum offers an API, it is true that we could create our own clients
for searching/posting/receiving messages, but that task would involve a much
much bigger effort from those users that can do that if they want to be able
to read the mailing list messages as easy as before.
Octavian
