https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404286
--- Comment #24 from NSLW <lukasz.wojnilow...@gmail.com> --- Created attachment 124526 --> https://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=124526&action=edit Tłumaczenie plasma-vault.mbox (In reply to Michał Dybczak from comment #17) > I added myself to the PL lang mailing list just to fight for the change back > to "Anuluj". I'm disappointed that's your motivation. I would like you to come here to work on translation rather than to fight because I think it would be less aggressive and more productive. > First, there are maybe 1-2 persons working on translation for years. I think there is a fallacy here. During my translation period (8 years) maybe two/three users submitted files to me in order to commit them into official repository. Those were small but nevertheless valuable contributions. There is also Jaroslaw Staniek which activated himself after I've fully translated mostly untranslated Kexi. He made some corrections in Kexi according to his knowledge. There is also Luigi Toscano, who sometimes merges some new translations from Transifex, Launchpad etc. By you saying that there are 2 peoples working, I feel like treated unfair because I don't see any other translator doing work and I know who lifts the translations. > Because of the antiquated system, it's hard start and help with translation. AFAIK you didn't try to contribute, so to me your opinion is not backed by real life experience. In the beginning I were submitting all my translations to Marta Rybczyńska and it was working OK. The problem started only as I were submitting more and more. > Secondly, because those persons do all the work, they hold also the right to > make the decisions and the voice of others carry no weight. Would you like to hold the right to make all the decisions but do no work and take no responsibility for it? I disagree with that point of view. You wrote, that voice of others carry no weight. I presume it's also about your voice not being taken into consideration. Please recall following post: https://sourceforge.net/p/kdei18n-pl/mailman/kdei18n-pl-devel/thread/4e833f16-e596-68a3-f6b3-24e04bc95ba7%40gmail.com/#msg36094656 On 2017-11-10 you send e-mail with the same issue directly to me (see attachment to this bug). It was about me translating the word "vault" as "krypta". You wanted to see "sejf" instead. I've accepted your suggestion without any argument. Is that not the weight that you had on your mind? > I tried to argument the best I could but to no avail, since I'm, an outsider > and have no experience and knowledge, I can't win this. There is no > democracy in that area. Do you mean this post? https://sourceforge.net/p/kdei18n-pl/mailman/message/36775781/ That's the only place I saw you taking voice. I read it, answered it, and saw no arguments valuable to me. I see that you took side, want fight and win with your side. > There were even someone from the KDE dev team that ordered them to reverse > the translation, and they refused it. So he made clear that this wasn't a > request and that they have no choice... They refused... because in reality, > because of that obsolete system, no one can force anything. I don't community like the ones who give orders and the ones who receive orders. I believe community is a bunch of people who do something voluntarily. Do you see it differently? > Even if we were on git system, someone would have to read and review pull > requests, but maybe there would be someone who would be somehow responsible > to other KDE devs and abide the hierarchy. Recently a user wrote to me about untranslated menu in KDE. It wasn't KDE but Qt thing, so I made a submission here https://codereview.qt-project.org/c/qt/qttranslations/+/284474 Two reviewers has been added. Not translators but Polish speaking employees of Qt. It's around 60 short translation units which wait for a review since 2019-12-12 (four days now). The amount of paperwork needed to: 1) create an account there (not a simple task) 2) send a commit 3) get acceptance is in my opinion unproportionate to the work that needed to be done. The result is untranslated strings and no vibrant community of translators around Qt. It's not only in Polish but in Spanish as well and Spanish is well translated language in KDE and has many more native speakers. I remember times when all translations went through Marta Rybczyńska. It was less harsh than Qt but still not optimal. I made translations during a weekend and she revised it three weeks afterwards. I believe it wasn't convenient for her the same way as it wasn't for me. I'm not in favour of making more paperwork. It will slow down progress and would eat scarce time resources that could be used for value adding translations. > Anyway, this is super frustrating situation and it hurts KDE development. > From one side, those few persons ensure that KDE is properly translated > which is great, on other hand, they just don't listen to anyone, because > they know they have all the power based on the work they put in. In a way > they are also right. The fact that I don't do as anyone would like doesn't mean that I don't listen to anyone or to you particularly. I would like you to do less emotional statements and more statements which are based on facts because I would like this discussion to be productive. Please try to read and listen as well because there are some basic fact you're still missing like the one that there is single person who translates into Polish here. In regard to hurting KDE development. Luigi Toscano wrote "There is one translator, apparently the only one active, who decided to translate something in a certain way." and I 100% agree with that because he sees that there is only one translator and for "zaniechaj" he didn't termed it with word "absurd" or "abhorrent" - no drama, no justification. (In reply to Michał Dybczak from comment #20) > Yes, this is a social problem but git system would allow more people be > involved and that would create a healthier atmosphere. That's your opinion. I think everyone would like have something to say and it's rarely that everyone would agree with each other. That would create more discussions instead of work. Based on how many people contributed to the translations and how many people contributed to the discussion I presume that some people would like to put his 5 cents into discussion rather than work. > From one side the experience and knowledge puts them [lang dev] in position > to make > decision, on other hand, language is a bit more than an academic knowledge, > it's also a history of usage and currently the reverse is supporting the > widely accepted and used translation "Anuluj" no matter of linguistic > correctness. I think that in this case, work makes one entitled to make decisions and not "experience and knowledge". Sole experience and knowledge won't make any change/create any substance. Did you read opinion of linguist Mirosław Bańko? He seems to be supportive of "Zaniechaj". > The main issue here is, since Linux in desktop is still a small niche, we > should abide the wide used standards to ease the transition from Windows. > There are areas where we cannot or even shouldn't use Windows solutions, but > language standards are not one of them. They won't create security wholes. > Translation in UI area should follow computer language that is familiar and > widely used. Confusion and lack of standard here is not good to anyone. > This is what current PL lang devs aren't getting. They have their own > reasons and there is no discussion. I think you would like to abide to the standard of Windows. I would like to abide to the standard of Polish language. I think it's nothing unusual because MacOS didn't abide to Windows standard for a relatively long period of time and we don't know why they've softened. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are watching all bug changes.
