On 25 August 2013 21:09, Aivaras Stepukonis <astepuko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I do understand that my suggestion may very well go against the grain of > current programming practices and quitely likely against the current > paradigm of organizing and running the "whole thing" (a multi-project > platform). > > A good technology may be quite inconvenient in its primary and even > intermediary stages of development but should always become convenient once > it reaches the stage of maturity which is the ultimate criterion for its > goodness and also the main ethical reason of making the human suffering > caused by its primary and intermediary imperfections meaningful. > > No matter how fast Pootle will run, no matter how may "mediating services" > there will arise, some parts of translating AOO (i.e. discrete > decontextualized occurrences of terms such as in menu lists) will be done > in a very clumsy and convoluted way of going from A to B to C to D only to > return to A. For goodness' sake, do it in the A! > > Best regards, > > A. > > 2013.08.25 21:38, Mr. Phan Anh rašė: > >> As a single project/application, I would agree, this is an amazing idea >> ever ! >> >> But, again with letter "B", AOO is a huge project. >> The deployment for translation also take developers much time to maintain >> when they have time for dealing with bugs and issues :) >> >> But, thank for your sharing about this, if I am a moderator of AOO forums, >> I will vote for you. >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis >> <astepuko...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> Would you like to be able to edit menu descriptors by simply pressing the >>> Ctrl key and right-clicking them, as an example? I certainly would! >>> >>> As simple as that, even if it goes against a trend or two. The objective >>> here is to have the maximum time and effort spend on the quality of >>> translation. >>> >> Actually seen from a development POW, it neither impossible nor far fetched to make something like that. Language packs are in praxis an extension (admitted a special one), but just as I am wring an application that generates the language pack (new translation workflow = genLang), its possible to write an application that edit a language pack. Combine such an editor, with a program (or AOO extension) that catches keystrokes, and we are very close. Due to way the graphic subsystem works, I am pretty sure that you would need to restart AOO. However, this requires resources, and at least now most developers focus on other areas. As far as I know, I am the only one actively programming on tools to help the translation workflow. rgds jan I. > >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Aivaras >>> >>> >>> 2013.08.25 21:08, Mr. Phan Anh rašė: >>> >>> You should try transifex, they are using the method of statistic base on >>>> the percentage of the words/phrases/characters. >>>> >>>> Transifex is a paid service, but with the type of project open source, >>>> you >>>> can do a little test for your testing translation, it will give you big >>>> surprise. >>>> Crowdin uses a style of a real CAT style, with the embedded Bing & >>>> Google >>>> inside, but it also restricts with project (free for open source but you >>>> have to get contact with them first). >>>> Meanwhile, Transifex asks you to pay fee for their service of using API >>>> from Google & Bing. >>>> >>>> And about the speed stuff. >>>> Yeah, this is really a hell for us. >>>> When working with a single po file, wow, Pootle is charming, such as >>>> xvideos for free. >>>> But with multiple po file, and assume this po file has 3 unstranslated, >>>> that po file has 15 unstranslated, these po file have... those po file >>>> have... in a single click of "untranslated strings", and then, the speed >>>> after pressing Ctrl+Enter would be a long waiting. >>>> >>>> Pootle is free of charge, embedded inside every own system/website. >>>> >>>> So, everthing is ok, better or worse, well, base on our choice and >>>> money. >>>> >>>> At least, we havent used the type of "upstream" any more, this is >>>> really a >>>> disaster. >>>> Translating offline and pushing up, well, not a trend though. >>>> >>>> Pootle/transifex/crowdin is a trend of "cloud", this case, is good. >>>> But as I have said above, choice and money again, will decide the >>>> leading >>>> role. >>>> >>>> >From your email of sharing about foobar, this would make me a heart >>>> attack, >>>> honestly I havent joined any kind of that translation activity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:55 AM, Aivaras Stepukonis >>>> <astepuko...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>> I certainly do echo your concerns about some inconveniences a >>>> translator >>>> >>>>> has to go through to get his/her job done properly. >>>>> >>>>> I use Pootle only for searching term occurrences and locations in the >>>>> PO >>>>> file structure. Otherwise, it is too slow compared to working with, >>>>> say, >>>>> Virtaal. >>>>> >>>>> For translating greater bulks of text, PO files is a fine way to go. >>>>> >>>>> The greatest source of frustration are the discrete (i.e. >>>>> decontextualized) words whose meanings (sometimes in part, sometimes in >>>>> whole) can only be determined by looking at the actual UI, except that >>>>> there is no UI to look at! >>>>> >>>>> If one is translating to a synthetic language such as my native >>>>> Lithuanian >>>>> (other examples being Polish, Russian, etc.), the need for syntactical >>>>> and >>>>> grammatical context is even greater because one has to get right not >>>>> only >>>>> the concept of the original term but also the target grammatical form >>>>> for >>>>> that term, of which (form) there may be quite a few... >>>>> >>>>> Without the proper rendition of these forms (such as number, gender, >>>>> and >>>>> case), the localized version of AOO will simply look untidy and >>>>> amateurish, >>>>> pushing one to revert to the English version of AOO with all the sad >>>>> consequences of indirect conceptual assimilation... >>>>> >>>>> The most graceful solution for the translation of the discrete >>>>> linguistic >>>>> elements (mostly, terms in the menu lists) of the UI is to have a >>>>> translator's version and/or moder of AOO, that would allow to edit the >>>>> words directly in the UI. That would open a whole new level of >>>>> efficiency >>>>> and quality control for translators and ultimately foster the >>>>> willingness >>>>> of AOO end users to opt for the native UI. >>>>> >>>>> A nice little example of being able to edit some of the linguistic >>>>> elements of UI, is Foobar2000 for those who know it. I wouldn't be >>>>> surprised to find out there are are more programs with a flexibility of >>>>> this sort. >>>>> >>>>> These are some random observations of mine that I wanted to pass on at >>>>> the >>>>> moment. >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> >>>>> Aivaras >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013.08.25 19:18, Vladislav Stevanovic rašė: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I can see that someone of us look for a better, easier way for >>>>>> translating >>>>>> AOO. >>>>>> (Look: Brainstorming: Can we refactor the website to make translation >>>>>> easier?) That is good. >>>>>> I am in middle of process of translating AOO into Serbian language. My >>>>>> suggestion is: when we translating on Pootle, it would be great help >>>>>> if >>>>>> there will be path for ui, e.g. where this sentence or word are >>>>>> located >>>>>> in >>>>>> ui, and how to find them in ui. >>>>>> Example: "Current selection" Path: Writer/Tools/Word count >>>>>> On the pootle is avaliable location where is stored this word or >>>>>> sentence, >>>>>> but in unfamiliar way for non-programmers. Here are, I guess, present >>>>>> and >>>>>> translators who are not an programmers. Also, for better translation, >>>>>> sometimes only way to figure what means something what we want to >>>>>> translate >>>>>> is to see in ui what actualy represent this word/sentence, what >>>>>> action. >>>>>> So, >>>>>> somebody who decide about this, please take this suggestion in >>>>>> considering >>>>>> and is it possible to do this. >>>>>> We will get much more friendly-user tool for translating, and we will >>>>>> get >>>>>> much more better translation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Stevanović Vladislav >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------** >>>>>> --** >>>>>> >>>>> --**--------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.******apache.org< >>>>> http://apache.org**> >>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice**.apache.org<http://openoffice.apache.org> >>>>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.org<l10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org> >>>>> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**** >>>>> **org< >>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.**org <http://apache.org> < >>>>> l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org <l10n-h...@openoffice.apache.org>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------** >>> --**--------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>> l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.****apache.org<http://apache.org> >>> <l10n-unsubscribe@**openoffice.apache.org<l10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org> >>> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: l10n-help@openoffice.apache.****org< >>> l10n-help@openoffice.**apache.org <l10n-h...@openoffice.apache.org>> >>> >>> >>> > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**--------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > l10n-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<l10n-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org> > For additional commands, e-mail: > l10n-help@openoffice.apache.**org<l10n-h...@openoffice.apache.org> > >
