Ian, that's the most balanced argument I have seen so far, on any forum, Facebook crappy page or whatever. I commend you. I'm also glad Ian that you were able to vote. I have been out of the homeland way too long, to be able to have my say.
from another exiled conviction-free Brit in the land of people who descend from bread thieves and so on Pete C t'original one -----Original Message----- From: Leedslist [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ian Murray Sent: Wednesday, 8 June 2016 8:47 PM To: Matt Anderson <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LU] NONLU: EU I'm voting out not because of any Muslim issue! I'm voting out for reasons of democracy. The commission is the executive and is unelected. Look at what they did to Greece, the Greeks voted overwhelmingly to end the austerity imposed upon them and were ignored. Technocrat governments have been installed in failing eu economies like Italy. It seems to me that the eu in general and specifically the Eurozone works only in the interests of Germany. There is some nationalism in my reasons too. Fundamentally I think that our system of law and government is superior, and I prefer to keep it. Was I happy at being inundated with Eastern Europeans changing the culture and landscape of my hometown? No. I don't remember being consulted about that. It's completely facile to say that that makes me racist. In the words of Alan Partridge 'it doesn't'. I get I live in Australia now and can be criticised for voting. But here's an example - my partner is Aussie and if we wanted to live in the UK we'd have to jump through a million hurdles to get her a visa. My Aussie mate has a Lithuanian partner and he would get a visa automatically, to live in England. As an Englishman, this makes me actually angry. So yeah, I'm voting out. I don't feel that the economic consequences will be anywhere near as dire as Cameron makes out. They can't be as bad as 2008, and we survived that. My two € cents. MOT Sent from my iPhone > On 8 Jun 2016, at 17:16, Matt Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Exactly! I despise politicians they are all in it for themselves not > us. You only have to look at boris's pro eu comments when it suited > him a couple of years ago > > However we voted for them and they should be doing stuff like this. If we > don't want them to do that vote them out in 3 years and vote for someone that > does. > > My problem is that a large % of people are too stupid to vote on this. > The popular theme in my ukip local is we want our country back higher > wages and keep them Muslims out > > Last time I looked Poland wasn't an Islamic hotbed. And the wages are > just regressing to the mean after over inflation. £100k a year for low > quality cockney plumbers a few years ago > > For the reasons above I hate the EU, self serving politicians but.... Europe > is shifting right and this lot will be gone in a couple of years. > > There is no reason to leave a world power trade block based on not > liking Muslims > > Democracy is over rated > > Matt > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 8 Jun 2016, at 10:05, Richard Naef <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >>> Rich, I think that's a bit of a (typically) narrow view of it all, >>> there >> are MP's >>> across ALL parties who are split on this, it just seems to be the >>> one's in >> focus >>> are Gove & Johnson, both of whom are surely stating that they will >>> never lead the Tories should the remain campo win ... Which I think they >>> will. >> It all >>> seems (To innocent, Harehills born, thicky me) very similar to the >> Scottish >>> Independent vote. All bluster and scare tactics (From both sides) >>> But ultimately 'the safe bet' will win. >> >> I'm not sure why you think my view is (typically) narrow? The facts >> bear it out, the parliamentary Tory party is split pretty evenly >> 50/50, the Labour and Lib Dems MPs are, I believe at least 90/10 In, >> Greens 100% in and UKIP 100% Out. I appreciate that those numbers >> may not exactly tally with the parties voters though, particularly in >> the Labour Party. The vast majority of the press coverage so far has >> concentrated on the Tories and UKIP, with Labour only recently making any >> effort. >> >> I've been canvasing (albeit very briefly) in Brighton and most people >> are confused and quite a few angry that we are even having a referendum, >> don't >> we pay our MPs to make these long term very complicated decisions? >> >> I don't think a remain will stop Johnson from leading the Tories, >> Cameron is a busted flush whatever happens. >> >> >>> The vociferousness of the exit camp should anyone DARE suggest their >>> own opinion (Obama, The IMF, Just about every world leader, Mark >>> Carney, The TUC, 450 out of 650 MP's etc. ALL of who suggest we'd be >>> better off >>> remaining) smacks to me of Empirical behaviour, still thinking we >>> own half the World ... which we don't! and sticking your fingers in >>> your ears and shouting LA LA LA if anyone dare to put forward a >>> sensible argument >> against >>> you. >> >> 100% agree. >> >> >>> FWIW, I'm also in, mainly because I think we need to look to the >>> future >> and >>> not the past. The World is shaping up to be made up of 5 super >>> powers; America, Russia, China, The Middle Eastern Oil countries and >>> Europe, if >> we're >>> not at one of those 'top tables' we'll be an insignificant voice in >>> the >> distance >>> shouting "Listen to us, we used to be important". Also, in OR out >>> will not stop immigration! So I cannot understand people thinking >>> voting out will change that one iota. >> >> Again 100% agree. >> >>> When the undecided 10% close the curtain and put their X down, they >>> will (It's a very British instinct) err on the side of caution and >>> stay with >> what they >>> have. Just like they did in Scotland. 55-60% to 40-45% In on June >>> 23rd I reckon! >> >> I hope you are right, but comparisons with the Scots debate aren't >> totally useful, from talking to quite a few people, it is clear that >> the problem will be getting the Remain vote out. There are plenty of >> spittle chinned swivel eyed passionate Leavers around, many less on the >> Remain side. >> Another difference is that the majority of the press are pretty much >> every day peddling the Leave stories. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leedslist mailing list >> Info and options: >> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >> To unsubscribe, email [email protected] >> >> >> MARCHING ON TOGETHER > > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email [email protected] > > > MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] MARCHING ON TOGETHER
