En relación a Re: [L-I] Speaking the same language?,
el 31 Aug 00, a las 18:20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] dijo:
> I fear comrades
> outside Germany got a wrong impression about reality in Germany.
>
> Actually there are very few immigrants who do not know enough German
> to communicate. Almost any job in Germany will need at least very
> basic German language skills, only in very few jobs (cleaning,
> kitchen) you can get along without any German.
>
> Furthermore there are no 'ghettos' in the US-American sense of the
> word.
I have already commented this on private mail to Johannes (welcome
back, by the way). I was not thinking of a "physical" ghetto, but of
a "social" ghetto. Social phaenomena don't always have a direct and
visible physical expression. The idea, moreover, was that, _if_ there
existed layers of Gästarbeiter who did not manage the language of
their new country properly, it was not them, but the social formation
that received them, which should be put to blame. I do generally
think, by the way, that learning languages is useful, always. So that
learning the language that is widespread in the country you are
happening to live in should be useful. If there is no societal move
towards teaching you that language, this must mean something not on
you, but on the society.
> Generally the ruling class in Germany has a economic interest that the
> immigrants learn German, thats why there is state funding for language
> classes. The reason is obvious: most jobs require at least some
> German. After all one of the economic benefit (for the capitalist
> class) of immigration lies in the fact that almost no education has to
> be paid for, since immigrants usually arrive, when having finished
> their eductation in their home countries. So paying for just a
> language course is a very cheap way of geting a fully educated worker.
True and interesting. Most interesting, in fact, is the comprobation
that even in this sense semicolonial realities are the opposite as
they are in central countries. The mass of migrants to Argentina were
less literate than local Argentinian population, and it was Argentina
that took the job of raising them above illiteracy.
>
> Of course there are immigrants who do not know any German and even did
> not try (or get a chance) to learn it. Mostly they are women from the
> first generation of immigrants. Generally they came a few years later
> than their husbands and never intended to work in Germany. Given their
> daily life, they simply dont see much profit from learning a more or
> less difficult language at their age. From their perspective (opposed
> to the perspective of a German university graduate) a not so stupid
> decission.
This decission implies to agree on the isolation of women at home.
This is a "sound" decission under the condition that women are kept
as if a piece of furniture...
>
> From the discussion I got the impression Anton (and Nestor at least in
> the case of Argentina) are favouring the idea of some compulsory
> language courses for immigrants.
No, not at all. What I mean is that the conditions must be generated
(and if they do not exist, they must be the result of some kind of
struggle) for migrants to be interested in mixing with the local
culture. This will in the end bring the best results to this culture
itself. Cultural miscegenation is probably the most fruitful kind of
miscegenation one can conceive of.
Let me say I oppose this for various
> reasons. The first one is just a practical one: I dont think you will
> make much progress in subject you are just forced to study, especially
> learning languages needs some sort of effort from the student if
> there should be any success.
Replied to above.
>
> The second reason why I oppose compulsory language classes is
> political: In the present discussion in Germany 'language' just stands
> for 'integration' a term hated by most immigrants in Germany today. I
> will show in a seperate post, why 'integration' is the key bourgeois
> ideology in the field of immigration in Germany today.
This is interesting. So that migrants would prefer to become an
island within another country? Strange, indeed. Please comment.
Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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