Robert wrote:
> "Ben Irvin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in part: > >> Thus, this has little relationship to why America was hit on 9/11. > > Which you think was due to US foreign affairs. But the USA's very first > such foreign affair was against the Barbary pirates, and it didn't lead to > terrorism then. All those years of French & British military action and > occupation in the Near East starting in the 19th Century didn't lead to > terror in France or Britain. Things have changed for the better in Islam's quest. Since the 1400's Islam was in in freefall and lost territory and lands that it had once conquered. In those days, the European birth-rates equaled those of Muslims, and the inherent nature of Islam devoutly followed led to poverty. Indeed, Islam's revival came with the discovery of oil in some Muslim nations (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Libya, Iran, etc.) starting in the 1930's. The goals of Islam have never changed since Mohammad beheaded his first infidel 1400 years ago; however, the discovery of oil now allowed for financing Jihad on a grand scale and to fulfill Islamic supremacy objectives. It is no accident that the world's most famous Islamic Jihad warrior is Osama Bin Laden, as he inherited 300-million via his dad's business with the Saudi royal family (rich by oil). America's meddling in the Middle East makes us a special target for Allah's children. One wonders if Bush, or his advisors, even realize the differences between the Sunni and the Shiite Muslims, or that since the region (Iraq) was first stolen by Muslims, that Sunni have always ruled over Shiite? This was true when the Turks ruled and even the British for a bit. It has nothing to do with Shiite being a majority in Iraq, and everything to do with Sunni tradition. Seeing that over 85% of all Muslims are Sunni (including those with the most oil), the Sunni will eventually regain control of Iraq. That is despite our crazed support of the Shiite government of Iraq we created. >> I would encourage that our government, and especially individual citizens, >> to publicly condemn Islam devoutly followed. Islam like Nazism >> and other ideologies is a political philosophy; however, unlike most >> other political philosophies it is also a religion. > >> Some of the main Islamic areas to be condemned would be: > >> 1. The supremacy nature of Islam. >> 2. Dhimmitude and beheading areas of the Koran. >> 3. Low status of women. >> 4. Lack of separation between church and state. >> 5. The general barbaric primitive nature of Islam. > > Have you ever heard of a case in which outsiders' in gov't or the private > sector condemning of someone's religion has led to changes in that religion? Yes. I don't have to even give examples outside the inland West where I live. The Mormons in the early 1890's suddenly decided that polygamy was not only not part of their faith, but that it was illegal. This was traumatic on the Saints. Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, was born in Mexico because his polygamous family had fled with hundreds of other Mormons to LDS colonies in Mexico. By the time Mitt's dad was born, social pressures had convinced his family that polygamy was no longer acceptable. The same happen to Mormons in 1972 when they suddenly announced that blacks (Negro) were fully human, and could enter the Mormon priesthood. Before that date blacks could never become full Mormons. It was social pressures again that caused the Mormon church to rethink their doctrine and traditions. In 1903, the federal government prohibited the Crow Sun Dance. Violators would be fined and jailed. Thus, the traditional Crow Sun Dance has not been performed since 1903. However, it is doubtful that there would be much demand, as Crow culture changed, and there wasn't a need for the religious ceremony. In 1939 the Crow adopted the Shoshone Sundance that was entirely different than the old Sun Dance, and that has been used ever since. I could site numerous other examples where social pressures altered religious habits. The numerous Hutterite colonies in Montana and other parts of the West, have had to change many of their religious habits because of outside social pressures. >> Muslims that will not compromise on at least the small list given above, >> should be treated similarly to the way America treated activist Nazis >> between December 1941 and May 1945 that desired to destroy our way of life. > > Like that had any effect on Nazism??! It did force a lot of German Americans to decide if they were Americans or Nazis; for, society would not tolerate both. At least 99% decided that they were not Nazis, though still German-Americans. Those that remained openly devout Nazis, were generally detained, harassed, or arrested. There were not many. Muslims can still be Arab-Americans, Anglo-Americans, etc. However, their fascist philosophy should be condemned by all whenever possible. > Or like any such change in American > Nazism or American Islam would have any effect on the foreigners who > were/are the real problem? It would have an effect on Muslims living in America, which is my main concern. Like the old Nazis of yesteryear, those that can't stand the social criticism can always go to a place that does. > Do you seriously think the Red scares of the early & middle 20th Century in > the USA had any significant effect in getting the Iron Curtain to come down? > They couldn't even root the Communists out of the Cabinet! I also don't think that the price of Oreos has any impact on religion? :-) The Red scare certainly did have an impact on devout Communists living in America. I believe that the social pressures put on the Mormons and other religious groups would have an impact on Muslim-Americans. The five main areas of concern that I listed, go to the root of American and Constitutional values. Those values need to be accepted by Allah's flock, and Islam either abandoned or greatly changed from its current form. ~ Ben
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