Huzzah! Yes-a needs assessment that is current and also a careful review of existing space utilization. And, we need to lay out facilities based on constraints, legal, zoning and otherwise. This information. already exists. Many are already speculating about Bemis and Pierce House without the benefit of information.
I repeat myself- let us not spend a dollar on designs until there is an assessment that has been done in the last 3 years. Please. If such an assessment exists, can someone please circulate it far and wide so that we can have a better informed discussion. And, to another point…a discomfort at a perceived hint of tone of resentment that this proposed space might be primarily for use by “seniors." I moved here in 1976 and voted for school budgets long before I had kids in the schools. Ten years, to be exact. My last child left the public school in 2002. I have been voting for and supporting the schools ever since. I am part of 30% of the Lincoln population who is doing the same. So, for the vast majority of my years on Lincoln, I pay for services I do not use. And not only is that OK with me, I feel it is important to do so. That is what makes an educated, civil society. Just saying…. ------ Sara Mattes > On Oct 26, 2022, at 4:53 PM, Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Andy - > > Please see below for responses inline, preceded by the ## sign. > > -Seth > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM Andy Wang <andyrw...@gmail.com > <mailto:andyrw...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Seth, > > Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the > Spring (reference here > <http://lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/72451/Community-Center-2022-Town-Meeting-Article-12>), > the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was originally > estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M and projected > to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. Which is more like > 20-26% on the low end. > > ## The number referenced in my note was for the one pod which contains LEAP - > not all three pods. It is not clear to me that all three pods would require > substantial renovation in order to continue being of service. The LEAP pod > almost certainly does. Whatever the requirements are, my overarching point > is that they are likely a "couple million dollar" problem. Not a $25M > problem. The real issue in my view is that the requirements need to be > revisited and reconciled with the available resources. > > Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As > proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior > Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a > conflation, others may not. > > ## Well - to be fair. The overwhelming majority of the contemplated use is > for the CoA. I would argue the other contemplated uses are superfluous or at > least could be solved more cost-effectively. Others of course may disagree. > > It may be an opportunity to use what I think are two under-utilized resources > (the pods and Bemis) into one with more use. At the same time, co-mingling > diverse generational residents has shown to have a positive effect on all > involved. There may be other intangible benefits for a Community Center, you > can't look at everything from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore > it either). > > ## I respect this perspective. Personally I disagree that this facility will > be an inter-generational meeting place, but I could very well be wrong about > that. It may well have non-pecuniary benefits I don't fully appreciate. > While we could debate that point in good faith, my contention is it doesn't > matter much since the town simply can't afford to build a $25M+ facility. We > do have $27M of "borrowing capacity" we could utilize -- but being able to > finance something is not the same thing as being able to afford something, in > my view. It's simply imprudent. > > In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are not > ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, parking, > physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I doubt a large > renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it doesn't appear like > there is much room for expansion. The pods really do need a renovation, if > you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. > > ## I think I could easily be convinced that the pods need attention (I'm > already convinced). We both know what the LEAP building looks like and we > know that needs to change. But here again, we're talking about a few million > dollar problem that doesn't require a $25M+ solution. > > I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put my > little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things you > would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that wasn't > really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not > concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community center > to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, I'm > undecided. > > ## I think in theory this is interesting. But if we're being honest, PNR is > a couple of people in a 250 sf room. They do super important work and I'm > deeply grateful for it... I am not at all attempting to minimize its > importance. I am suggesting that the needs there are not difficult to > resolve, and certainly aren't something I'd want to use up all of my > borrowing capacity to resolve. DPW facilities in contrast are in desperate > need of capital investment, it's a whole crew of guys, and they keep our > entire town running. Again, I'm not trying to pit PNR against DPW - but I am > highlighting that there are limited resources and virtually unlimited needs. > We are forced to prioritize. > > I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the end > of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to > provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of > Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 - > $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of folks > may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from a > financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are lovely > buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town vote. I > would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community center, one at > the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just as an example. > > ## I too do not believe we should spend the money to develop those proposals, > because I too do not believe the town will vote in favor of either. I am in > favor of a comprehensive needs analysis and developing a new capital > budget/spending plan that is prudent, thoughtful, and takes into account the > economic realities. > > It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if > the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a > community center or does that just put things back to the committee to come > back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a > smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be > forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in > that case. > > ## I would very much like to have a community center at some level of scale. > But I am most interested in evaluating that desire in the context of other > "must haves" and resources. > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com > <mailto:rosen...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to zero > into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we think > is the most rational path for the activities there. > > Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home > for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital > needs there. > > There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and > stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two > other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be > incorporated into the Community Center. > > The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, using > the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost would > be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total Community > Center project cost. > > We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities hosted > in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not deemed further > usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec > school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's > indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new > empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation activity, > namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, to conduct > its activities. We are sure other adult activities could also find > accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed Gym. > > As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in > finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has > stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction of > their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the > school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. > > Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which can > be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project with > no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. > >> On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <djcp0...@gmail.com >> <mailto:djcp0...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> >> My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the Pods >> for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging around >> after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school building >> was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but significant >> overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs are only going >> to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea of rolling the >> senior center into the school campus as it would be nice to have the >> communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular already do >> service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to expand that.) >> Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the community, but I hope >> everyone can keep an open mind. >> >> Diana >> Giles Rd >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <louiszi...@gmail.com >> <mailto:louiszi...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this >> project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost to >> sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor >> into the overall cost and design we are seeing. >> >> There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to go >> back and watch them to be better educated. >> >> https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs >> <https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >> What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? >> >> I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important for >> our older population. >> >> Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. >> >> If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for seniors >> that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic health & >> fitness facilities. >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >> >> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede >> <maureensbeedeem...@gmail.com <mailto:maureensbeedeem...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for >> $199/year if over 80. >> >> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >> Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be granted >> certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness facilities at >> Hanscom? >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes >> <elainehaw...@gmail.com <mailto:elainehaw...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s >> something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class of >> 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior >> senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how >> many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a greater >> worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to continue to pay >> them if a community center is built. >> >> “If you build it they will come” >> (https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385 >> <https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385>) Is this true, >> particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of classes >> and meetings on Zoom? >> >> There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that from >> lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town for >> programs. >> >> I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space in >> its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it cost to >> heat this big building? >> >> I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center was >> first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed income >> housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older homebound adults >> could stay in their homes if they had more services paid for by the town. >> This would be a good use of money for seniors. >> >> Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the same >> time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments and >> backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and stay >> in their large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking for >> Lincoln housing. >> >> Elaine >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.> >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >> <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. >> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. >> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >> <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. >> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. >> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >> <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. >> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. >> >> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >> <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. >> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln >> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. >> > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org > <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ > <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln > <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >
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