Linux-Advocacy Digest #801, Volume #25 Sat, 25 Mar 00 05:13:04 EST
Contents:
What should be the outcome of Microsoft antitrust suit. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: An Illuminating Anecdote (Terry Porter)
Re: New research question, this time about Apache ("Robert Davies")
Re: Weak points (Darren Winsper)
Re: Bsd and Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Weak points (Arne Adolfsen)
Re: Buying Drestin Linux Was (Re: Drestin: time for you to buy UNIX for DumbAsses
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Weak points (Arne Adolfsen)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (George Marengo)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (Jeff Glatt)
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Subject: What should be the outcome of Microsoft antitrust suit.
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 05:36:03 GMT
There should be a law that a customer must have a right to buy any PC
without any operating system installed.
This will give a customer choice of any OS, or if someone aleady have
Win on desktop, why he/she have to pay to M$ an additional fee for OS
on laptop?
Zalek
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: An Illuminating Anecdote
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 25 Mar 2000 14:48:48 +0800
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:51:10 -0700,
John W. Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>
>> I think you're the one with the crack pipe. Linux is growing because of a
>> philosophy, not because the quality is better. It is getting better all the
>> time, but the quality is not the reason it's growing.
>
>Quality is one of the reasons *I* use Linux. Linux is far superior to
>Windows in respect to quality.
>
>> Visual C++ has a command line compiler, which is called by the IDE. You
>> don't need to use the IDE or MFC to use this. You don't seem to know what
>> you're talking about.
>
>GCC produces less efficient code, yes, but . . . how do I get VC++ to
>cross compile my code for an Intel micro-controller?
What micro-controller John, is it a 8051 variant by any chance ?
>
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours 36 minutes
** homepage http://www.odyssey.apana.org.au/~tjporter **
------------------------------
From: "Robert Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: New research question, this time about Apache
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:58:02 -0000
Chris Beauchamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Steinberg wrote:
> >
> > Woah, OK. Looks like I've managed to instigate a bit of a battle here.
> > Thanks for the comments, though. I will certainly work on modifying some
> > parts as a consequence. I should stress that when I talked about
> > professional software, I was thinking of profession in the monetary
context,
> > like a professional sportsman.
> >
> Indeed, but the opposite of professional is amateur which has lots of
> negative connatations. I guess I'm saying just be careful how you word
> things...
>
> > I have a few new questions though, which are cropping up as I move
along. At
> > the moment I am working on an explanatory chapter than talks about
Linux's
> > history and more important the reasons that it has proved so explosive
in
> > growth and interest terms. I've used a lot of the thoughts people
presented
> > to me over the last few weeks. My questions relate to this really.
> >
> > 1) Can anyone tell me about the history of Apache and Sendmail? I am
looking
> > to find out how it is that they came to dominate their market sectors on
the
> > web. Just a link would be good, but any personal thoughts are even
better.
Talk to your friendly neighbourhood system administrator... ask him if he
has
O'Reilley's Bat book (sendmail) and 'Definitive Guide to Apache', they have
nice historical summaries and a few anecdotes, as part of the introductions.
As for the linux usage, it's actually higher, as most ppl use it without
realising.
In my company folk think they are using a Mac or a PC, but hardly anything
of
the core business functions doesn't pass through a Linux box at some stage.
Rob
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: 25 Mar 2000 15:34:56 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:35:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An Os is an OS is an OS is an OS is an OS is........
Yeah right. I suppose Linux isn't an OS because it doesn't have a
browser which cannot be removed.
> I like things simple.
Then Windows isn't for you.
> I run applications.
Amazingly enough, so do I
> The OS that has the quality applications wins.
That's your choice. However, your high and mighty attitude tends to
make you think particular apps you like are the be all and end all.
> I plugs me Sblive in. (Substitute Canon printer, Canon scanner, USB
> camera or any other device )
> I plop me CD in the drive.
> I says, Install it all baby.
I install my new system. In goes the Matrox Mystique. On go the
*certified* drivers. Down goes the system. Solution: deltree
c:\windows; e:\win98\setup.exe (The system is rendered such that
removing the drivers simply ends up with them being reinstalled in the
next reboot).
> And it is done in 5 minutes.
And it is done in an hour once I figured out that there was no way I
was going to get those drivers to work.
> Every feature on the card works perfectly.
No feature of the card works because the system won't boot.
> MIDI, Env. Audio, and so forth.
2D, 3D, nada, zip, zilch.
> Adobe Photoshop is up and working. Did I mention it is included with
> that $60 scanner?
Did I mention the exact same card works perfectly under XFree 3.3 and
4.0? I spent less time installing XFree4 from source tarballs than I
did piss-farting around with Windows trying to get the Matrox driver
working.
> I don't even do graphics but one look and even I can tell Gimp dies
> next to this program.
Care to provide examples of why. All that people seem to do is scream
"CYMK" whenever asked.
> >>All the features I paid for not to mention all the great software that
> >>comes with them like Canon Creative and so forth.
> >Snore.
> That is what I can do tonight cause I am not up all night trying to
> make my hardware and software (if I can find it) work under Linux.
I had the same sentiments under Windows. Oh well, at least I've
progressed from the CD-ROM drive crashing Windows and taking half the
hard disk with it. And all because the CD had a few scratches...
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: 25 Mar 2000 07:34:15 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.apps Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
:> Gordon Moore himself then goes on to refer to the same idea. Try
:> looking in the dictionary of computing.
: Let's get to the heart of the observation:
: Gordon Moore agrees that processor speeds double every 12 to 18
No he doesn't. He says something else again. Check.
: months. He doesn't say that it is "a 40% increase" as you claimed.
What's your problem with this? If you take the 100% increase in chip
transistor numbers every 18 months, and assume that represents density,
then you get 40% speed increase from that alone! Then you get other
speed increases from improvements in technology. Then you get more
again from technology jumps (Moore says that he estimates there are
5 more to go).
I don't recall the last technology jump. But my 2-year old P2-450
was not the fastest available in its day, and it is not half as fast as
the fastest available today.
: It's a reason not to trust traditional UNIX DES-based crypted
: passwords.
Calculate the numbers.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Arne Adolfsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:41:19 +0000
NNTP [formerly Ms. SetMeUp] wrote:
> > machines are for. Or are you one of those people who think
> > that what the world needs RIGHT NOW is a combination
> > television-hair dryer-telephone-toaster oven?
> Anything wrong in it ?
Uh, yes.
I, for one, don't ever want to own a combination
coffee-maker/toilet.
> > replaced Window~1 95 on my home machine with Red Hat 5.0 in
> > August 1998.
> Well, strange change, Redhat 5.0 had more bugs than Windows 95
> itself,
What do you mean by "bugs"? I did, and do, freeze up almost
hourly on Windows 95, yet I haven't yet once had a window
freeze on Linux. Maybe -- surely -- there were bugs in RH
5.0, but were those bugs in critical business applications?
> anyway, what was you using Windows 95 for that could be
> substituted by Redhat 5.0 ? Did not you think about upgrading to NT ?
The incredibly unstable Windows95 + Office97 package
delivered me wholesale to Linux. It's one thing if I have
to use that stuff at work. It's another question if I have
to use it at home. And I don't have to use it at home.
> > I haven't any idea what you're babbling about here. In 18
> > months I've never had a single window manager problem on Red
> > Hat 5.0, Red Hat 5.1, Red Hat 5.2, Linux-Mandrake 5.2,
> > Linux-Mandrake 6.0, or Linux-Mandrake 6.1.
> Neither have I, but that, does not answer any about my questions.
Uh.....
> > I think Micros~1 Office is a bloated piece of crap -- lucky
> > me, I am forced to use it at work -- but I'm not going to
> > stick up for StarOffice either. I really don't need an
> > office suite at work or at home, and I'm more than pleased
> > -- I'm thrilled in fact -- with the WordPerfect 8 port to
> > Linux.
> Ever tried to read .DOC documents ?
I routinely reply to email formatted in Word97 with email
formatted in KLyX. For documents on diskettes, I ask that
they format the documents in some platform-independent
system. Most don't, but they soon learn. (I work in a
central office at a university, and there's no way anyone at
the university can get past me without my OK.)
> Don't ever try to tell
> me that it always read them correcly. Yes, I need Word compatibility,
> is it a sin ? No, I do not like false claimings, and till now, you are
> answering
> nothing more than "Signor", "Madame" and so stupidities. Tell me something
> real, and by the way, me is a system administrator under Linux, Solaris and
> NT ... now 2000.
I have no desire, let alone reason, to read Word documents.
If people can't provide me with platform-independent
documents -- despite the fact that I provide them with
information on how to do it via platform-specific methods (I
let them know how to do it in Word 95, Word 97, Word Perfect
(3 versions), various Mac versions of Word, and in addition
how to do it by typewriter and pen -- makes me less than
sympathetic when they claim that they "didn't know". Gosh,
would the IRS let me off the hook if I claimed not to know
that 4/15 was the due date of my tax forms?
> > I have less than no interest in computer games.
> Well, you are not the world, most people that is encouraged to change
> to the DOITALL OS called Linux like gaming, and thus, I can not recommend
> them to use only Linux as their desktop OS.
I have less than no interest in computer games.
> > Netscape under Windows 95 crashes for me at
> > work on average a dozen times a day (no exaggeration);
> Yeah, under Linux it goes fine, don't tell me more uh ! By the
> way, have you tested NT or 2000 ?
I haven't felt a need to test either system, mostly because
it would have cost me beaucoup de bucks. And there's really
no reason for me to switch to Microsoft products. I'm
functioning at least as quickly on 3 year old hardware as
Winders 2000 users function on brand-new, state-of-the-art
hardware. My download times at home via a 56K modem are as
fast, if not faster, than my downloads from work where I'm
ethernetted into a backbone site (usc.edu).
> > used Internet Explorer or Outlook Express, mostly because
> > I've never felt the need to do so.
> That's the difference, I used everything I'm talking about. It is
> difficult to have an opinion about something one does not know.
My new boss uses IE and Outlook Express. The main
difference in my productivity and output from hers, so far
as I can tell, is that her print-outs are formatted
differently.
Big whoop.
> > And I'm at a loss as to
> > your characterization of tin and krn as "sucky".
> Well ... I won't explain it to you ...
I've never used krn, but tin strikes me as more than
acceptable.
> > It offers me, for one, an
> > incredibly stable and fast OS, and that counts.
> What other OS have you tested to think Linux is the best ?
Give me a break. I've been using computers at work since at
least late 1985/early 1986. Shall I really list them out?
> > unbelievable stability and speed on a Pentium II than spend
> > thousands of bucks for Window~1 2000 software and the
> > hardware it requires to run it, in return for which
> > applications freeze up constantly, there are system crashes,
> > and the memory leaks are so humongous that you have to
> > reboot at least once a week. Unless you change any
> > configurations or install software or stuff like that, in
> > which case you have to reboot.
> Again, are you talking about your own experience, be serious. None
> of the Linux advocates that have tested Windows 2000 dare to say it
> freezes constantly, and if we compare system requirements to run equivalent
> environments under Windows 2000 or Linux (aka KDE or GNOME),
Buy me the hardware that even Microsoft claims is the
minimum and I'll try Windows 2000 out.
But aren't you forgetting that Microsoft 2000 to date is a
*server* package rather than a personal software package?
> If you know how to answer with no sarcarsm and know any real data, answer
> me
> and if not, just shut up.
I'll hush up, Missy "SetMeUp", if you will.
Arne Adolfsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S. You'd be a lot more credible, Monsieur "SetMeUp", if
you provided a stable user name and an actual, viable email
address.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Buying Drestin Linux Was (Re: Drestin: time for you to buy UNIX for
DumbAsses
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 07:47:43 GMT
Actually for one, PCanywhere 9 after install will tork your whole
win2k. I mean you have to totally reinstall. However, If you run the
live updates during the install pcAnywhere runs like a champ! Believe
me I have done it!lol..
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Arne Adolfsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:08:49 +0000
Arne Adolfsen wrote:
> I have no desire, let alone reason, to read Word documents.
> If people can't provide me with platform-independent
> documents -- despite the fact that I provide them with
> information on how to do it via platform-specific methods (I
> let them know how to do it in Word 95, Word 97, Word Perfect
> (3 versions), various Mac versions of Word, and in addition
> how to do it by typewriter and pen -- makes me less than
> sympathetic when they claim that they "didn't know".
I meant that I give them the OS answer first, and then
follow with the platform-specific info afterwards.
Mea culpa.
I notice that Mrs. "I Luv Microsoft" -- or is that Signor
"Ich liebe Microsoft"? -- still hasn't posted a valid email
address here. He's only had two days, during which she
posted to this group, in order to do so.
My LEAST favorite thang about Usenet over my 9+ years'
experience of it is people who fake their email addresses.
It just gives me a giant woodie that I don't know how to
deal with.
Arne Adolfsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: George Marengo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:05:52 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:17:26 GMT, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>George Marengo wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:52:57 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >What you were always after was nothing more or less than something you
>> >could count on to run for at least a few hours, and run all the gimmick
>> >software that you could find.
>>
>> OS/2 simply didn't have the software selection that I was looking for,
>> and I knowingly traded off stability for application availability.
>
>WinOS/2 support was nothing to sneeze at, even in the 2.1 days.
>Which kinds of apps did you find you couldn't run in OS/2?
I don't remember -- it was too long ago. Even how, however, I have
to run a dual boot system because there I have two apps and one
piece of hardware that won't run on WindowsNT.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Glatt)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:43:53 GMT
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Jeff Glatt writes:
>
>>>>> Doesn't change the fact that it was a common perception. It's even
>>>>> been mentioned in this newsgroup on several occasions.
>
>>>> It has also been mentioned several times in this newsgroup that you
>>>> abused your employer's computer facilities and were reprimanded for
>>>> doing so
>
>>> There is a difference between a common perception and a fact. I was
>>> talking about a common perception. You are claiming fact, but you
>>> have yet to present a shred of evidence to support your claim.
>
>> It is a fact that it has also been mentioned several times in this
>> newsgroup that you abused your employer's computer facilities and were
>> reprimanded for doing so.
>I just finished telling you that there is a difference between a fact
>and a claim of fact, Glatt.
I just finished telling you that it is a fact that it has also been
mentioned several times in this newsgroup that you abused your
employer's computer facilities and were reprimanded for doing so.
>Your "mention" of some alleged abuse and
>some alleged reprimand constitutes the latter, Glatt.
Prove it, if you think you can, loser.
>>I suggest that you learn how to use dejanews
>How ironic
Yes, it is ironic that you suggested someone else use dejanews to
verify that something had been mentioned in this newsgroup, when you
are clearly unable to use dejanews to verify that it is a fact that it
has also been mentioned several times in this newsgroup that you
abused your employer's computer facilities and were reprimanded for
doing so.
>, coming from someone who sets the archive flag to "no" to
>prevent DejaNews from archiving his own unsubstantiated and libelous
>claims.
What alleged "unsubstantiated and libelous claims", loser?
------------------------------
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