Linux-Advocacy Digest #927, Volume #25 Mon, 3 Apr 00 20:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why Linux on the desktop? (abraxas)
Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY ! (mlw)
Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's (Craig Kelley)
Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's (JEDIDIAH)
Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY ! ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped (David Steinberg)
Re: Let's just have a discussion about Global Domination (John & Susie)
Re: Linux mail/news application questions ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsoft NOT a monopoly ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Why Linux on the desktop? (Jim Dabell)
Cd-burning ulility... (JoeX1029)
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped (eyez)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Why Linux on the desktop?
Date: 3 Apr 2000 22:16:09 GMT
Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "John W. Stevens" wrote:
>> [Mathias Warkus wrote:]
>> > Writing HTML is not programming.
>>
>> Yes it is.
> I agree. I would consider HTML and {TeX,LaTeX} programming
> languages. In html, you are programming a web browser to display
> something. The browser acts as an interpreter for HTML. And, of
> course, HTML is "Hyper Text Markup Language". Writing a TeX app is
> also programming, in my view. You are basically programming a
> typesetter when writing a [La]TeX document.
You would be wrong. Theyre scripting languages, as are TCL, Perl,
Python, etc. Programming languages would include:
C
C++
Fortran
Pascal
If you do not understand the difference between scripting and
programming, you are a scripter, not a programmer. :)
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY !
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:33:54 -0400
bob@nospam wrote:
>
> Judge Rules Against Microsoft
>
> WASHINGTON (AP) - A federal judge today found that Microsoft Corp.
> (NasdaqNM:MSFT - news)
> violated the Sherman Antitrust Act, legal sources said.
>
> U.S. District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson found that the company used its
> position to ``monopolize the web browser market'' to the detriment of
> competitors, the sources said.
>
> The judge found that Microsoft could also be liable under state
> anticompetition laws, said the sources, who spoke only on condition of
> anonymity.
>
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000403/ts/microsoft_44.html
Lets see if the powers that be have the guts to do what is right and
needed, and break up Microsoft!!!!
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
Subject: Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 03 Apr 2000 16:45:54 -0600
Sascha Bohnenkamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It is unix-ish under the hood.
>
> more or less
>
> > It's kind of interesting to play with,
> > if you have the spare time. It really shines with threaded multimedia
> > applications
>
> which? name three
You're not really interested.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:59:47 GMT
On 03 Apr 2000 16:45:54 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Sascha Bohnenkamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> > It is unix-ish under the hood.
>>
>> more or less
>>
>> > It's kind of interesting to play with,
>> > if you have the spare time. It really shines with threaded multimedia
>> > applications
>>
>> which? name three
>
>You're not really interested.
He's rather justfied. Be may or may not live up to the hype.
Based on your response, it doesn't. That's a shame really...
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY !
Date: 3 Apr 2000 23:03:05 GMT
bob@nospam wrote:
: Judge Rules Against Microsoft
I managed to download the decision (in pieces - the server was
obviously very heavily loaded) and am rather impressed at the efforts
Judge Jackson and his staff made to understand the issues involved.
The findings look fairly airtight from both a factual and legal
standpoint, and should largely survive the appeals process.
The ruling will have little *direct* impact. It may be years before
the appeals process is exhausted, and meaningful settlement on terms
that are fair to the industry is extremely unlikely. What should and
hopefully will happen, though, is that now that evidence of
Microsoft's tortious and criminal actions is a matter of public
record, those who have been most heinously damaged by these actions
will now be in an excellent position to recover much of what has been
stolen from them.
In spite of Microsoft's best efforts, Linux, Java, and Netscape (or
possibly Mozilla) are still alive, as are other powerful technologies
that threaten to destroy the "applications barrier to entry" far more
effectively than any court could. Monopolies are inherently evil, but
also inherently unsustainable.
Future developments should be very interesting indeed.
Joe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Date: 3 Apr 2000 23:18:05 GMT
JOE ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: What are the 10 things about Linux you wish you knew before you got a
: copy and started installing?
Just one: "Running Linux" by Matt Welsh, Matthias Kalle Dalheimer & Lar
Kaufman, published by (who else?) O'Reilly and Associates.
Someone told me to get a good book before I started, so I went to Chapters
and picked one. It was the thickest Linux book in the store, and seemed
to cover the most topics, plus it came with RedHat, Slackware, and Caldera
CD's.
Boy, was that ever the biggest waste of $80! For some reason, it felt it
was useful to guide you, keystroke by keystroke, through all three
distributions' installations, but beyond that only covered user-level
topics. It didn't explain how anything worked, nor what files to edit for
what configuration. It didn't even talk about the configuration utilities
provided by those distrbutions! In short, if you wanted to do anything
after installation more complicated than changing permissions on a file,
you were on your own.
I bought a copy of the third edition of "Running Linux" about 6 months
ago, and I think that it's the best book I've ever purchased! It answers
all my questions about every topic, from initialization to shutdown, and
all points in between, including networking, managing filesystems,
security, configuring X, installing applications, and compiling your
kernel.
I would never suggest to a newbie to start learning Linux without
recommending this book.
Okay, I know that sounded like a paid advertisement, but it's totally
sincere: all of the hardest questions are answered by this book. My later
Linux experiences have been so rewarding compared to my earlier
experiences mainly because of this book.
--
David Steinberg -o) Boycott Amazon.com! Fight
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \ the "1-Click Order" patent:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v http://www.nowebpatents.org
------------------------------
From: John & Susie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Let's just have a discussion about Global Domination
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:20:53 -0400
Aghhhh!!! My eyes are bleeding! Use your spell checkers or drink a
better brand.
HTH,
John
mlw wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> > Microsoft has told us all along what was necessary for a commercial
> > software vendor to acquire global domination of the Operating System
> > Market.
> >
> > What answers has Microsoft provided us.
> >
> > In the beginning, there was Microsoft with DOS and UNIX's galore
> > with UNIX.
> >
> > The Microsoft DOS system was easier for NEWBIES to use, so it took
> > off.
>
> I wouldn't say that MS-DOS was ever "easier" to use than UNIX. It was
> certainly cheaper.
>
> >
> > To make the NEWBIE even more happy Microsoft made Windows 3.X.
>
> After NEWBIE found Windowed 1.x and 2.x unusable.
>
> >
> > This also put them in competition with Apple.
> >
> > What was the final analysis! They gave the customer what he wanted.
> > A CHEAPER OS for a CHEAPER PC, the IBM PC CLONES.
>
> Yes, UNIX was also still embroiled in an AT&T licensing mess.
>
> >
> > Microsoft quickly began to dominate the Workstation market.
> >
> > OS2 evolved along the same light. OS2 had some problems.
> > IBM insisted on writing all the drivers themselves.
> > Microsoft started a policy of having VENDORS write the drivers for
> > them.
>
> Microsoft and IBM developed, jointly, OS/2 1.x. It was IBM's insistence
> that OS/2 1.x run all the major DOS programs AND run on a 80286 that
> made OS/2 1.x the late dog that it was.
>
> >
> > IBM had a bad reputation from the start from all the people who delt
> > with them during the mainframe wars. Those IBM only shops with
> > IBM only employee's in them. Anybody who said anything bad about IBM
> > and was overheard was suddenly fired with no chance to gain employment
> > again. These were the HARD OLD DAYS back when IBM attempted to gain
> > global domination of the mainframe markets.
> >
> > IN those days, MICROSOFT corporation was everybody's hero.
> > Believe me, they were!
> >
> Yes, I remember. How far they have fallen. Remember the quote, "Choose
> your enemies well....."
>
> > So they made it all the way to the top then began a policy of making
> > proprietary communications interfaces built into their WEB BROWSER.
> >
> > They attacked and devestated Netscape.
> >
> > It was at this point in time that Microsoft quit attacking other OS
> > companies. They had won the war for the PC and were beginning to
> > attack other companies applications which gave threat to continued
> > global domination of the desktop.
> >
> > Netscape was the next logical target. HTML was the saloon.
> > The INTERNET was the street where the gunbattle took place.
> >
> > Netscape got one shot off and in the process received 5 rounds to the
> > chest.
> >
> > The county folks saw this and decided to bust up the Microsoft gang
> > before they lost control of the county.
> >
> > Basically what we are saying here is what we said about IBM from 30
> > years ago. Once they achieve global domination a corporation has to
> > resort to quasi criminal actions to remain on top.
> >
> > Let's look at what Linux does now. Let's examine the desktop,
> > the multi user OS that Linux is, let's look at the network,
> > let's see the netscape communicator now healed from his wounds.
> >
> > Now let's tell the truth. Linux right now offeres more than NT does
> > for the desktop? Truth or False?
> >
> > It's TRUE. There is JAVA support under LINUX. There's nothing NT
> > offeres which Linux doesn't already offer. Nothing.
> >
> > Let's look at the price issue.
> > $45 for Suse 6.4, $65 for Redhat Deluxe. $45 for Mandrake 7.0.
> > $8 for Debian. $350 for Windows 2000. $190 for NT 4.0.
>
> Don't forget, it is also "free" once you have obtained it. Meaning that
> you can copy it all you want.
>
> >
> > They are no longer the cheapest OS. If you have a large office
> > building full of people, say 450 pc's worth, I'm going to have to
> > buy 450 * 350 = $157,500 is the cost to upgrade my desktops.
> > That doesn't count servers.
> >
> > You could do the same thing under LINUX for $0 if you had somebody
> > working for your firm who knew how to use FTP.
>
> Just but it once a quarter for 29.99 and copy it all you want.
>
> >
> > What's worse is everything advertized to work under the LINUX
> > distribution does work and everything under the Windows 2000 OS does
> > not work. They are saying 30% of 2000 is broken. 30%! That's just
> > freaken pathetic man!
> >
> > What really sucks is I work for a company which is chained to
> > Microsoft currently. If their product doesn't work, then I could
> > loose my job. That's what I'm facing right now. I'm facing a sorry
> > product which was picked for us by people with high school educations.
> >
> > I'm not joking here. I work for a couple of high school educated
> > folks who we're smart enough to start their own business but we're not
> > smart enough to be able to pick out an OS to base it on.
>
> It has been my experience that it is not the level of education a person
> attains, but the level of knowledge a person pursues. I know a lot of
> BS/MS that are stupid. I know a lot of high school grads that are
> brilliant.
>
> >
> > We live in troubled times.
> >
> > I've got Mandrake 7.0 installed in my machine.
> > It's really a dream compared to the NT install.
> >
> > A NEWBIE would love it, high school educated or not.
> >
> > 2 years from now, there won't be a NEWBIE on this planet who won't
> > love a LINUX install. LINUX system administration wizards and the
> > like.
> >
> > So we've brought ourselves to the third reason Microsoft stays in
> > power. "IGNORANCE".
>
> Again, I am troubled about your categorization of "education" as a way
> to enlightenment. Yes, people with a desire for enlightenment and
> education can better themselves through collage. Just remember, George
> W. bush and Dan Quale graduated collage. Abraham Lincoln, the Wright
> brothers, H.G. Wells, and many other great names had not.
>
> I think education level considered more importantly than it really is.
> Wisdom, intelligence, experience, common sense, and character are not
> built in collage, they are born and raised in a person.
>
> >
> > IT was a part of Bill's strategy from the beginning.
> > Global domination is nothing more than having control over the worlds
> > "IGNORANT PEOPLE".
>
> This can be said about anyone who wishes to gain control over people.
> Control can not be exerted without power. One can not have power without
> influence over many. More often than not, evil has influence over
> ignorance.
>
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > If Bill GATES were a drug dealer then the world would be a cemetary.
>
> --
> Mohawk Software
> Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
> Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
> "We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
> lobster"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux mail/news application questions
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 01:09:09 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <8cah6m$abn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Just installed Linux Redhat 6.2 after a few years away from the OS.
> I'm stunned at how much is changed, but i'm beginning to miss the
> things which caused me to return to windows in the first place.
> I'd love a mail program that can sort and search mail. One that can
> automatically place mail in folders based on simple rules. A contact
> list that integrates with the mail program so I only have to maintain
> one list of contacts/email addresses. Netscape mail really sucks. It
> has corrupted my archives several times.
Why doesn't anyone use exmh? It's a front end to [n]mh and is written
entirely in tcl/tk. Does all that you want and lots more. Use procmail
to process incoming mail and you have a wonderful MUA environment.
> The news reading programs are very weak. I simply want the ability to
> select what articles I want to download, tell it to download, and have
> it happen. I'd also like the ability to have it automaticly combine
> and decode messages. Several windows programs, (outlook, agent, etc)
> have these abilities. I'm surprised Linux still doesn't.
leafnode is your friend here. If you want a gui threaded newsreader
try knews.
> Are there any modern applications in development that meet these
> needs? Everytime I tried to search for an answer to this question, I
> found a lot of advice saying to use mail, trn, etc. Yeah, I used those
> programs for a while; but I didn't upgrade to linux to use the same
> text based programs I used 10 years ago.
> Thanks,
I have only mentioned one MUA and one news reader here. With Linux
or any Unix you have such a large choice that there is something
for everyone.
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft NOT a monopoly
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:25:47 -0500
Tim Kelley wrote:
> I believe Gerald Holmes put this issue to rest a long time ago.
Yeah, I used to think MS was a monopoly, but then Bill Gates went on TV
and said it wasn't, so now I'm better informed.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: Jim Dabell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux on the desktop?
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:34:14 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
abraxas wrote:
>
> Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "John W. Stevens" wrote:
> >> [Mathias Warkus wrote:]
>
> >> > Writing HTML is not programming.
> >>
> >> Yes it is.
>
> > I agree. I would consider HTML and {TeX,LaTeX} programming
> > languages. In html, you are programming a web browser to display
> > something. The browser acts as an interpreter for HTML. And, of
> > course, HTML is "Hyper Text Markup Language". Writing a TeX app is
> > also programming, in my view. You are basically programming a
> > typesetter when writing a [La]TeX document.
>
> You would be wrong. Theyre scripting languages, as are TCL, Perl,
> Python, etc. Programming languages would include:
>
> C
> C++
> Fortran
> Pascal
>
> If you do not understand the difference between scripting and
> programming, you are a scripter, not a programmer. :)
>
> -----yttrx
Wrong again, they are markup languages. Scripting languages are
complete (turing complete? I forget the full term). The only
difference between interpreted ("scripting" in your words) and compiled
("programming" in your words) languages is the implementation, as you
can have compiled Perl and interpreted C, etc.
You are still more right than the original poster though :)
Jim
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029)
Subject: Cd-burning ulility...
Date: 03 Apr 2000 23:44:16 GMT
Is there a cd burning program for Linux thats lets you burn the image of a cd
right to the disk?? Thanks.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (eyez)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:54:07 GMT
EEk! snipped too much! ;) Topic: O'Reilly&Associates: Running Linux
>I would never suggest to a newbie to start learning Linux without
>recommending this book.
>
>Okay, I know that sounded like a paid advertisement, but it's totally
>sincere: all of the hardest questions are answered by this book. My later
>Linux experiences have been so rewarding compared to my earlier
>experiences mainly because of this book.
Indeed. O'Reilly books Are second-to-none for Anything. If you want to
learn in linux, look first to O'Reilly.
>
>--
>David Steinberg -o) Boycott Amazon.com! Fight
>Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \ the "1-Click Order" patent:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v http://www.nowebpatents.org
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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