Linux-Advocacy Digest #698, Volume #26 Fri, 26 May 00 11:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (rj friedman)
Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition (Streamer)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (Chris Wenham)
Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (rj friedman)
Re: Saddest anti-Linux site on the web? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Goodwin's Law invoked - Thread now dead (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition (Paul Voller)
Re: PHP vs Java (Mark Wilden)
Re: Who is Linux hurting the most (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (Arclight)
Re: PHP vs Java (Bartek Kostrzewa)
Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers. (Chris Webster)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (rj friedman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: 26 May 2000 14:14:25 GMT
On Fri, 26 May 2000 02:35:49 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
¯Maybe its your hardware or the user simply has a knowledge gap. I've used RSU
¯to install several fixpaks, and none of them required drive "C" space...
Agreed
¯or
¯had the problems you claim with FTP failure -- in fact restarting a download
¯checks for an incomplete download and only gets the missing files...
That's how it works now - thank goodness - but in the early
days of the online fixpacks, it would start the dl all over
from the beginning without checking.
¯In fact I
¯haven't expereinced any of your problems.
The problems sound like what it used to be like in days of
yore - I can remember it used to be like that - but I don't
see that kind of behavior anymore.
________________________________________________________
[RJ] OS/2 - Live it, or live with it.
rj friedman Team ABW
Taipei, Taiwan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To send email - remove the `yyy'
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Streamer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:39:31 -0500
Christopher Browne wrote:
> This was a concern _five years ago_ when Caldera started producing a
> distribution that had more proprietary properties than anything RHAT has
> ever put together.
>
> A couple years ago, the "Works With Red Hat" thing was something many were
> concerned about.
OK, Chris,
Can you please tell me what is it exactly that made/makes RedHat's distro
more proprietary than any of the others? Am I mistaken to believe that you
could just install whatever packages needed and run all the applcations on
any Linux distro? Other than run-level assignments, what makes RedHat really
different from the other distros that mandate that one application can only
run on RedHat and no others? I'm not flaming, I just would really like to
know.
Thanks.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
From: Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:22:57 GMT
Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I gotta say, I've never had a single problem you mention.
But it doesn't mean they don't exist, nor can they be dismissed by
saying "I never had trouble" - that can be misleading.
> > But I wish there was a more granular update mechanism.
>
> The last NT update I did (SP3 IIRC, back when I used to run that sort of
> thing) was far worse as far as granularity was concerned. It was one whopping
> xx MB EXE file.
Then shame on Microsoft, and how does this excuse IBM?
Regards,
Chris Wenham
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:22:36 -0500
Streamer wrote:
>
> ajam wrote:
>
> > Point well taken! And at first sight, I completely agree; but you have to
> > look a little bit further to realize that this is only the beginning. I
> > remember when not that long ago they cranked up the price of their distro to
> > around $70.
>
> As long as RedHat is downloadable for the cost of an internet connection, I'm
> not worried. In fact, as long as many Linux distros are downloadable for the
> cost of an internet connection, I'm not worried.
>
> > Well, they have one at one hundred something. How many
> > commercial applications have you seen lately that say something like RedHat
> > Ready? Just wait one more year or so!
>
> Nah, don't fall into this 'Redhat only' misinformation. Once Redhat
> distribution is installed, it is a Linux system...not a RedHat system. Despite
> RedHat putting their name on all the display banners, it is a Linux system.
> This means you can do things like download some Suse or other tools, compile
> and run on a redhat system, or you can download some RedHat tools and put them
> on a Suse or others distro-installed system and run those tools. And you can
> always download and recompile the latest kernel itself in any distro.
>
> I suspect that "RedHat Ready" merely says it has only been tested on RedHat
> distro-installed systems. I also suspect some commercial applications creators
> are getting lazy, and just don't bother to test their application on anything
> else but a RedHat distro....it doesn't mean it won't work on Suse, Debian,
> etc. BTW, no law says you can't install rpm on the other Linux
> distros....don't be fooled in thinking only that only .rpm packages will work
> on Redhat or Suse (but then again, there are those of us who prefer the
> tarballs).
>
> >
While I think you've got some valid points, I think you are missing one
major point. There are commercial applications that businesses use that
absolutely will not work unless they are installed on Red Hat Linux
(check out VSI-fax if you don't believe me, although they are working on
Caldera). Now, you can force the install onto another distro (I use
SuSE with my copy) but if you have problems with it the tech support
will tell you one thing only, "You need to purchase the boxed set of Red
Hat Linux and install that before we can help you." As we see more
commercial app vendors doing this, and the Windows crowd starts to look
seriously at Linux as a contender, people won't see Linux, they will see
Red Hat. It's already starting to happen. In many ways. That is why
Red Hat can charge $2500 for a distribution now. That and the fact that
if someone sees that huge price tag (compared to Windows) they think
they must be getting something really special. I just feel sorry for
the people that get suckered into thinking that. The bottom line though
is the fact that Red Hat is almost at the point where they can do
anything that they want with a boxed set and get by with it, because
Linux is seen as Red Hat Linux by the majority of the "normal users" out
there. It's Red Hat vs Microsoft, not Linux vs Microsoft.
I know that there will always be other distributions out there for us
that are into Linux itself, but as Red Hat gains more attention, my fear
is that they will fall behind, and as they lose their appeal, they will
lose developers. I hope Debian and SuSE never hit that point as they
are my current favorites, but the possibility exists.
There is an interesting site (which I am sure most have seen by now)
called redhatisnotlinux.org. It's got some very interesting points in
it, and I would say we should all work to help them. It's not anti Red
Hat (and niether am I) it just wants to promote the idea that Linux is
bigger than one company, no matter what it may look like. That's an
idea we should all try to push. Don't you think?
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (rj friedman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: 26 May 2000 14:26:18 GMT
On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:19:05 Seán Ó Donnchadha
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
¯Let me guess. You're also confident that the world would have been a
¯better place had Microsoft never existed, right?
Right!
¯ Why do Microsoft
¯bashers all seem to think they can see into alternate realities?
Not "alternate" sonny boy. But here's a question back at
you:
Why do MS ass kissers insist on trying to convince the whole
world that the mediocrity perpetrated on the computing
public known as the "Windows Experience" is really Tutti
Frutti ice cream and not dog shit. In spite of the fact that
anyone with an independent mind can readily ascertain that
it stinks to high heaven, you MS ass kissers swear it is the
best tasting Tutti Frutti that was ever put on the market.
____________________________________________________
[RJ] OS/2 - Live it, or live with it.
rj friedman Team ABW
Taipei, Taiwan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To send email - remove the `yyy'
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Saddest anti-Linux site on the web?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:27:14 -0500
"Dr. Strangelove" wrote:
>
> Just take a look at this site, it is clearly the saddest anti-Linux
> site on the web, made by a 14 year old spotty geek:
>
> http://www.startnet-uk.com
You know, that's the most wonderful critique I've ever heard on Linux, I
think I'll change over to Windows right away....
Yeah, and while I'm at it I'm going to run to the kitchen and grab a
knife to chop of my privates too.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:28:25 +0200
David D. Huff Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An opportunity missed, may never return. Back to the subject, should M$ press
> on driven by a madman bent on total domination, they could befall the same
> fate. Are you listening BillG?
Officially Steve Ballmer is now running the company - not that he's not
mad.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:28:23 +0200
Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Bill Altenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I wouldn't liken MS to the Nazi era of Germany. I think a more appropriate
> >example would be a state univerisity directly east of Illinois in Elam's
> >territory..
>
> I'm totally lost.
So is Microsoft.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Goodwin's Law invoked - Thread now dead
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:28:22 +0200
Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edwin wrote:
>
> > Loren Petrich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8gcd95$cd4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [snip]>
> > > Much like Adolf Hitler's policy of never retreating,
> >
> > According to Goodwin's law, this thread is officially dead. Move along
> > folks. No thread to see here.
> >
>
> And how is this "law" enforced? What happens if I keep posting to
> this thread?
Like all who oppose Microsoft, you will be send to a camp.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:28:24 +0200
Mike Ruskai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Faced with genuine competition and realistic market forces, two companies
> split from MS may start to develop quality products.
That would be nice for a change.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: Paul Voller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.2 Enterprise Edition
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:33:54 +0100
Hear, hear. It troubles me that Red Hat seem to brand their distro as
"Red Hat", with very little mention of the fact that it is a Linux
system. Even the little stickers that they give you in the box (and I
/did/ buy a box once :-) say something like "Runs on Red Hat".
But, Debian is called GNU/Debian - no Linux publicised there, but then
again, that is different...
What a can of worms.
P.
===
Paul Voller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mullitt.freeserve.co.uk
On Fri, 26 May 2000, Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
|
|There is an interesting site (which I am sure most have seen by now)
|called redhatisnotlinux.org. It's got some very interesting points in
|it, and I would say we should all work to help them. It's not anti Red
|Hat (and niether am I) it just wants to promote the idea that Linux is
|bigger than one company, no matter what it may look like. That's an
|idea we should all try to push. Don't you think?
|
|Nathaniel Jay Lee
|[EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
------------------------------
From: Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: PHP vs Java
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:42:48 +0100
Andreas Kahari wrote:
>
> I don't know of any links to the info you want and I'm not an authority
> on neither PHP nor Java but I do know that PHP is executed by the server
> and that Java programs are executed by the client.
Actually, Java applets are executed by the client. Java applications
(including JSP pages) are executed by the server, and deliver results as
HTML pages to the client.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Subject: Re: Who is Linux hurting the most
Date: 26 May 2000 06:05:28 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[about linux programmers]
>didn't you know? they all work for free and give away everything they write
>for your company to everyone else in the world cause they
>steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow code from other open sores(tm) projects to create
>theirs anyway.
Translated to the lingo that the development community uses for this
practice: code reuse.
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP 0x07606049 GPG 0xD61A655D
The chances are 50-50 but the odds are against you.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 26 May 2000 09:59:26 -0500
In article <8gls7a$9s7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Mark Wilden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I don't think there's anything wrong with that, actually. It's an XP
>> tenet to 'embrace change' rather than try to restrain it with
>> over-specification.
>
>OTOH, under-specification can lead to horrendous bugs, including ones
>of the sort that cause no crashes, incorrect answers or lost chunks of
>memory. (Yeah, I've had this kind in my own code causing memory usage
>to grow from around 100MB to over 4GB[*] on the same input; failure to
>specify an interface tightly enough was the root cause.) The trade
>off between flexibility and bug control makes the problem of producing
>specifications very interesting indeed...
Changes to a basically working system almost always introduce new
bugs and problems, but you can't make improvements without some
change. Without some kind of unit testing as soon as the code
becomes complicated enough that you can't trace it in your head
you have no way of knowing if a change is an improvement or
not, or how likely it is that you just broke a lot of other things.
If you are trying to fix an existing bug you might take the
approach that things can't get any worse and plunge ahead anyway
and if you are doing something entirely new you don't have to
worry about existing code depending on current behavior but
that phase is mostly over in Linux development.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arclight)
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:58:23 GMT
On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:31:29 -0400, "Keith T Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>1. Microsoft office (at least 4.3 and 97) crashes frequently.
I've used 4.3, 95 & 97 and they have never crashed on me.
>2. Microsoft office is full of bugs (at least 4.3 and 97) that's why they
>issued (for 97) sr1 and sr2.
What bugs would they be then?
>3. Microsoft office 97 did not originally write Word 6/95 files, it wrote
>RTF files which it labeled as DOC files
It does write word 95 files if you install the correct export filter.
>4. After much yelling and screaming Microsoft issued a patch for word 97
>which allowed it to write real Word 6/95 "DOC" files. They also issued a
>patch for Word 6 which allowed it to read Word 97 files.
There was a filter on the office 97 pro CD which allowed you to write
real word 95 DOC files.
TTFN
Arclight
Web Site:
http://www.daniel-davies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:08:13 -0100
From: Bartek Kostrzewa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.help,comp.unix.programmer,comp.os.linux.misc,linux.redhat,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: PHP vs Java
Ben Chausse wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We have a webserver on Debian 2.2 with apache 1.3.12 & mod_perl 1.21 and
> I would like to know what is the best between PHP and Java (.php or
> .jsp) ????
>
> Do you know any web pages about benchmark test on PHP and Java ???
>
> Thanks ...
>
> Ben0iT ...
Very vague question... and if you want to use PHP... u must install
either the PHP executable for the server to access or mod_php and not
mod_perl
PHP is certainly faster than Java, but Java allows for more complex
applications, these functions are not needed though, and plus, PHP is
easier to learn.
I would still go the way of Perl, I think perl cgi's are by far the best
method to interact with a database server / generate pages
dynamically... but chose yourself.
--
Bartek Kostrzewa - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://technoage.web.lu
------------------------------
From: Chris Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers.
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:05:42 -0600
> Is there any way to make a Poscript "hello world" file to experiment with?
> I'm sure a Postscript guru could hand-make a "Hello World" file.
%!PS-Adobe-1.0
% Print Hello world in lower left corner, portrait
/Times-Roman findfont 20 scalefont setfont
10 10 moveto
(Hello, world) show
showpage
--Chris
------------------------------
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