Linux-Advocacy Digest #698, Volume #33 Thu, 19 Apr 01 05:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company (Terry Porter)
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company (Terry Porter)
Re: The X-Box and monopoly was: Blame it all on Microsoft (GreyCloud)
Re: NT kiddies, don't try this at home (GreyCloud)
Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company (GreyCloud)
Re: What's your take on this story? (Microsoft opening up the MSOffice file
formats?) (Geoff Lane)
Re: To Eric FunkenBush (GreyCloud)
Re: What's the point (GreyCloud)
Re: What's the point (GreyCloud)
Re: What's the point (GreyCloud)
Re: What's the point (GreyCloud)
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: To Eric FunkenBush ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: What's the point ("David Coto")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 19 Apr 2001 05:35:14 GMT
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:22:31 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> . wrote:
>
>>> But it _should_ be a replacement for Windows, except it isn't.
>>
>> This, pete, is why youre an idiot. You for some reason have decided
>> to believe this ridiculous posit. Who cares if its a replacement for
>> windows?
>
> Ah so you finally admit Linux cannot replace Windows?
Linux has never sought to replace the buggy, white goods software that is
Windows. Linux is a UNIX clone, and UNIX was released in 1973.
Linux is not Windows.
>
>> If it doesnt suit your needs, for the billionth time, DONT USE IT.
>
> And if I say Linux has a few problems... don't use it?
Everything has a few problems, this is no reason not to use something.
> You don't get it do
Goodwin, you're a persistant Wintroll, your arguments are weak, your efforts
to comprehend whats being said to you in this forum seem less than sincere to
me.
But your polite and entertaining, what more could a COLA reader ask for?
> you?
>
> --
> Pete
> Running on SuSE 7.1, Linux 2.4, KDE 2.1
> Kylix: the way to go!
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 19 Apr 2001 05:39:03 GMT
On 18 Apr 2001 14:37:27 -0500,
Chad Everett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:26:44 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>I'd have thought flakey hardware would show up as problems under Windows
>>too. I suspect it's not flakey hardware but the software: Linux + X + KDE
>>2.1.
>>
>>--
>>Pete
>
>
> DHCP works for Peter if he starts it manually. It's what?...
> A week later?... and he still hasn't figured out how to get
> the manual command in his startup scripts? And he says this
> is a problem with Linux + X + KDE 2.1
Goodwin is a new Linux user, he simply didnt wait to *learn* Linux before
posting his disenchantment on COLA.
Goodwin wants Linux to be his new Windows replacement, but it isnt
happening. Give hin a couple of years, and like so many Wintrolls before him,
his posts will begin to change, as he learns that Linux is not Windows, but
something far better :)
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The X-Box and monopoly was: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:32:46 -0700
Douglas Siebert wrote:
>
> Rob Barris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> > It has USB and/or Firewire does it not?
> >>
> >> No, it doesn't.
>
> >You're both right.
>
> >http://www.msxbox.com/faq.php3
>
> >The ports are USB protocol but not standard USB connectors.
>
> So someone will sell a $5 adaptor that will let you plug in a standard
> USB keyboard, though it won't be of much use without software. And since
> MS can control what software is allowed to run on Xbox, you probably
> won't see third party software requiring a keyboard. But if MS wants to
> use the Xbox for this, I'm sure they'll provide an MS keyboard using
> their proprietary connector along with the Web Terminal "game". It has
> SVGA and HDTV outputs, so you won't have to surf the web on a crappy TV
> like WebTV.
>
> MS probably doesn't want to do this, because they'd really anger Dell
> and the other OEMs, who might get more friendly towards alternatives
> like Linux (or theoretically Apple, since OS X could be made to run
> on x86 hardware, but Apple seems resigned to maintaining their small
> market share) If Sony starts the fight, MS will feel they have to
> defend their monopoly.
>
> --
> Douglas Siebert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I have discovered a remarkable proof which this .sig is too small to contain!
I think Sony can give MS a run for its money... after all S.O.N.Y. =
Standard Oil New York.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT kiddies, don't try this at home
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:37:04 -0700
"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" wrote:
>
> Bloody Viking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dave Martel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> > : <http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/5/18265.html>
> > : Missing Novell server discovered after four years
>
> > : "...the University of North Carolina has finally located one of its
> > : most reliable servers - which nobody had seen for FOUR years...One of
> > : the University's Novell servers had been doing the business for years
> > : and nobody stopped to wonder where it was until some bright spark
> > : realised an audit of the Campus network was well overdue...Attempts to
> > : follow network cabling to find the missing box led to the discovery
> > : that maintenance workers had sealed the server behind a wall."
>
> > : Can you imagine an NT server running totally unattended for four
> > : years?
>
> > In the computer world, that's tantamount to discovering the remains of
> > Pompeii. Except that it was still working! Now, the motive of discovery was
> > Microshit and software audits. Were it not for the BSA, that lone server would
> > have continued until the hardware died, humming away the years like the
> > Energiser Rabbit. That is some good uptime, 4 years entombed in a room that
> > was sealed off like the dead Pharohs of Old Egypt.
>
> Gee, here at NCSU, I just took down an old AIX 1 server (IBM Model
> 80/386) that had been up continuously from 1989 through 2000 after the
> Y2K rollover (it was even Y2K compliant). Mostly it was put out to
> pasture for no good reason, except to drop a sparc in its place.
> During 12 years of operation, its only problem was one HD bellyup.
>
> My NT4 box, well, it regularly bluescreens me, at least once a month,
> for no good reason.... such fun....
>
> There is something to be said for something as ```remains of Pompeii''
> in serverdom... if it works, don't muck it up with that other pointy
> clicky thingie that bluescreens you to boredom....
>
> Good ol' *nix runs forever......
>
> Bob
That's pretty much true. There was survey FWIW between IBM S/390,
AS/400 users and UNIX users as which O/S was the most reliable. It
varied of course but most put in UNIX as the most reliable, while some
AS/400 users said that the S/390 was the best. IBM is now claiming 35
years guaranteed uptime.... I don't know how that could be determined.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pete Goodwin is in good company
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:39:09 -0700
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > Give the memory test ago, should only take around 30 minutes. oh, btw,
> > I couldn't be bothered upgrading to KDE 2.1, maybe that could be the
> > problem?
> >
> > Matthew Gardiner
> >
> > --
> > I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
> >
> > If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
> >
> > Running SuSE Linux 7.1
> >
> > The best of German engineering, now in software form
> Yet no reply for 2 days. hmm, Pete is suffering from the typical luser
> syndrom called "It ain't fucking work'in, but I won't do anything about
> it". I offer a suggest, but no, that would mean that his problem is
> solve, thus, nothing to bitch about, and as a result, poor old Pete
> would have nothing to bitch about.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
>
> --
> I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
>
> If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
>
> Running SuSE Linux 7.1
>
> The best of German engineering, now in software form
Can you give me a summary of this DHCP problem? For some reason our ISP
is getting things messed up again.
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Geoff Lane)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's your take on this story? (Microsoft opening up the MSOffice file
formats?)
Date: 19 Apr 2001 07:51:00 GMT
>> Besides, XML is terribly space inefficient - if MS did switch to pure XML
>> output you guys would simply change your bashing to then say a) oh, so they
>> changed their format AGAIN and b) oh, their files are so big and load so
>> slowly!
>
> That' not fair on Adam Warner, he's one of the more sane COLA posters.
But xml does compress very well - I have a book database in xml that
compresses to 15% of it's uncompressed size. With faster cpu's and larger
memories it's often quicker to process a compressed file than an
uncompressed version as there is less IO to perform.
--
/\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\
Today's Excuse: firewall needs cooling
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:58:43 -0700
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:29:07 -0700, GreyCloud wrote:
> > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> > Go buy this book: ISBN 1-57169-131-6.... it discusses STL
> > This so called ignorance you are talking about...??? Tell that to
> > Stephan Prata.
>
> I've got a bunch of great books, by (for example) Koenig, Coplien,
> Stroustrup, Meyers, Fowler, etc.
>
Good books there.
> HOWEVER, the problem is that not everyone is fortunate enough to start
> with a good book, and you can NOT pick up a random C++ text with the
> assumption that the author is competent.
>
Quite true... Our contracted professor (Corporate type) told us not to
take anything as the Gospel truth in any book. I think the worst one I
ever ran into was "From Fortran to C" .... ugh! More errors than I
could count. Tossed it in the garbage.
> BTW, I'll have a look for this book -- I don't think I've seen it before.
>
> > I refute your trickle down theory....
>
> Well, you're going to have to refute harder. I can cite numerous examples of
> incompetent faculty, teaching from incorrect textbooks, and setting incorrect
> text exams (often also taken from incorrect question lists)
>
I agree with you there... I had the misfortune of spending my money at a
local College to pick up on Pascal back in 1979. The guy didn't have a
clue. He didn't last long tho.
> > where did you get your knowledge from???
>
> comp.lang.c++, and books recommended by people there. I'm a snob when it
> comes to books, most of the books I buy are written by leading experts, or
> they're books that I picked up *after* learning enough from the experts to
> feel comfortable appraising books.
>
I'm very careful about that too... its a very sore spot for me.
I don't know how many books in the 70's on Electronics Engineering I
bought (200+) for reference. Then when you apply someones theory and
get burned before your bosses' very eyes... its very embarrassing. So
some of the times its the "School of Hard Knocks".
I retired in 1993, so I'm playing catchup on some subjects. But I'm
also a trouble shooter. That's what I was paid to do in the Navy Dept.
> > You have to get it somewhere.
> > Don't the Universities use books??
>
> Yes, and our textbook is a sorry piece of crap. The author does not have
> a bibliography (what the ???), the list of keywords is wrong (and very
> incomplete), there's not even a coverage of string.
>
> But I've seen worse -- there are people who teach from books that do things
> like confusing windows specific functions with the standard library (@##@$!!)
>
I liked the Gov. approach better... they contract out from corporations
that have produced good results. Its the "Experience mandatory" part
they want.
You've clarified a great deal to me on your position.
At times I was shoved onto the bleeding edge of technology... and boy do
you bleed when put under pressure! I've had to gather information from
various corporations and sometimes they don't want to cooperate. Thats
when you have to start running lab tests. I'm glad I retired. I sure
hope this generation can keep things alive and well.
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
> elflord at panix dot com
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:13:45 -0700
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> <snype>
>
> I would more likely say you're on an ego trip to Bill Gates's heaven.
> What you were literately saying is that the average Joe and Jane are as
> thick as two short planks, which I agree with. However, on the other
> hand, you say they shouldn't need to learn anything. Well, I would hate
> to know a world where you didn't have to learn a skill to do something.
> Maybe I should go to a medical school and say to all the students that
> they are wasting their time learning, instead, surgery should be made
> easier so you don't need to learn anything. That is they kind of
> mentality that screw society. I thought that type of thinking was
> removed back in the 19th century, when the poor and women weren't given
> an education because they thought it was more trouble than it was
> worth. You STILL after 200 years maintain your elitist overtures, and
> you have learn't nothing from history. What you are saying is, "I want
> people to remain thick so that I can still keep my very pathetic job in
> a tech support department". I HOWEVER want people to learn new things
> and expand their horizons. My brother, 15 years old, can use Linux,
> ANDS HE IS NOT EVEN INTERESTED IN COMPUTERS! now, if you are telling me
> that a 30 year old person can't even read a book, then god help
> humanity!
>
This may not come as a surprise, but there are a lot of 30+ year olds in
the U.S. that have a hard time reading a simple newspaper. That's why
us older folks are being asked to come back to work because the younger
generation can't read the technical manuals or follow simple written
instructions. Very pathetic.
An old saying "There is no shortcut to knowledge."
> Matthew Gardiner
>
> --
> I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
>
> If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
>
> Running SuSE Linux 7.1
>
> The best of German engineering, now in software form
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:25:21 -0700
surrender wrote:
>
> In article <9bkprh$s9f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "David Coto"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote something like:
>
> >> Note: Now I have a dual 650Mhz PIII System at home running Linux that
> >> still runs faster than my dual 650Mhz PIII system at work running WinNT
> >> w/SP6. On top of that, my home system doesn't crash (unless I mess
> >> with the kernel which I'm known to do).
> >
> > Which measures are you doing to prove that ? Math calcs ? CAD design
> > ?
> > What to say so absolutly that 1CPU performs better than 2CPU's ...
> > obviously
> > they are not CPU intensive tasks.
> >
> >> Yes. Even my wife who isn't computer saavy sits down at my Home System
> >> and uses Applixware when I'm not on my computer....She chooses my
> >> system although she could use Word97 on her own WinME computer.
> >
> > That does not prove she works better, just that you are a good
> > advocate :-) and that she likes new things (all women I know do that).
> >
> It's not a new thing. Bill Gates said that linux was based on 20 or more year old
> technology, which is totally outdated compared to the Micro$oft®
> Windows®-products.
> ;)
>
YUP! Everybody knows inside microsoft that it wasn't invented here.
Where do you think Gates got his stuff?
> --
> Greets,
> surrender
> --
> $ apt-get moo
> (__)
> (oo)
> /------\/
> / | ||
> * /\---/\
> ~~ ~~
> ...."Have you mooed today?"...
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:28:48 -0700
Bob Hauck wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:10:51 GMT, Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > After wasting 2 solid weeks of vacation time accomplishing half of what I
> > could do in a few hours under windows (even with the crashes and GPFs) I
> > wiped my hard drive slick and threw on Windows ME.
>
> Of course, none of this really happened. The mention of a digital
> camera does tie in quite nicely with an ongoing thread here, but
> overall I found it to be quite derivative, with little that was new or
> interesting compared to other trolls of the genre. I give it a 2.3 out
> of 10 on the troll-o-meter.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| Codem Systems, Inc.
> -| http://www.codem.com/
LOL! Bob, you may have a new trend starting... when a troll comes in we
respond with the troll-o-meter... or trollometer. (Trollometer reading
of 5.6)
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:29:18 -0700
Todd wrote:
>
> Welcome to Linux.
>
> It takes endless hours to do simple things that under Windows is done
> automatically.
>
> And they say it is a conspiracy.
>
> -Todd
>
> "Eric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:vj2D6.4868$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > After six years of Windows and one GPF too many, I bought Redhat7 and
> > installed it. I expected a learning curve, but nothing like I ended up
> > with.
> >
> > I got my cable modem, printer, cdrom drives, and daily programs going, and
> > it took me endless hours - most of them spent trying to fix my display
> > resolution, only to find out the config file was XF86config-4 and not
> > XF86config. How the hell was I supposed to know that?
> >
> > Then I started tackling my digital camera. I followed all the howtos I
> > could find - no joy. And I still dealt with crappy looking fonts on my
> web
> > browsers. And that's when I decided to throw in the towel.
> >
> > After wasting 2 solid weeks of vacation time accomplishing half of what I
> > could do in a few hours under windows (even with the crashes and GPFs) I
> > wiped my hard drive slick and threw on Windows ME.
> >
> > So my question is, for the home user, what's the point? Has anyone
> learned
> > Linux from the ground up just to use it at home? What's the advantage?
> I'm
> > convinced Linux is great if you want to run a server or whatever, but is
> > there a point in home users running Linux?
> >
> > thanks - eric
> >
> >
Trollometer reading of .6
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 03:53:05 -0500
"Peter da Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9blmf3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <3adc77cd$0$18887$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Rick C. Hodgin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > They did not. They could access much more memory than 1MB because of
> > features present on adapter cards that could swap out portions of <=
> > 1MB memory with memory that was logically mapped beyond 1MB. But it
> > was still addressed within the 1MB region.
>
> Well there you go. Just like VLM.
No, there is a big difference. The Pentium+ class processors actually have
36 address lines. This allows it to physically address 64GB of memory. The
problem is that the instruction counter of the processor is only 32 bit. It
addresses the extra memory through the use of selectors and setting the
proper status bits to tell the processor which 4GB to address.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 04:01:41 -0500
"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:39:30 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > "Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > Of course it is. I made no statements about the quality or
usefulness
>
> > Actually, I believe that it's because the STL is entirely new style of
> > programming. It took years for OOP to really catch on after it was
> > available. The STL is based on generic programming, rather than OOP per
se.
> > It will take time for the concept to really sink in. People that are
> > already familiar with C++ seem to take the longest to learn it.
>
> Sounds plausible. A lot of them barely even understand OOP (-;
BTW, a book i'd *HIGHLY* recomend is Modern C++ Design:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201704315/o/qid=987670679/sr=8-1/ref
=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-5494303-0620525
This has got to be one of the better books on intersting styles of
programming you can do in C++. Many of the techniques the author talks
about are used in the STL and other libraries. This book really shows the
power of templates.
------------------------------
From: "David Coto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What's the point
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:29:52 +0200
> It's not a new thing. Bill Gates said that linux was based on 20 or more
year old
> technology, which is totally outdated compared to the Micro$oft®
> Windows®-products.
Testing new things does not mean the are really "new" things, anyway I
think
you understood me.
------------------------------
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