Linux-Advocacy Digest #698, Volume #34 Tue, 22 May 01 15:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux on the desktop potential, suggestions needed (quux111)
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Michael Marion)
Re: Intermediate user who left Windows for Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Chad Myers")
Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum: (Michael Marion)
Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum: (Michael Marion)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Chad
Myers")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! (David
Steinberg)
Re: RIP the Linux desktop (Michael Marion)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: evolutionary (oh boy) psychology: the short form ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (quux111)
Subject: Re: Linux on the desktop potential, suggestions needed
Date: 22 May 2001 17:42:53 GMT
"Flacco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:9JwO6.10065$[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
><SNIP>
> OK, good point - as long as Windows users can slide into a Linux desktop
> without getting scared, I could see that it would work. But all the
> familiar functions of Windows would have to be there...
>
I'm uncomfortable with using Windows as the performance-bar that Linux must
meet for success. Perhaps it's because I don't find Windows to be all that
elegant or intuitive to begin with, but I think it's a lousy target for
design decisions. IME users can adapt to most modern GUIs with little
mental strain -- there's really not much cosmetic difference anymore
between Windows, the Mac, KDE, and GNOME. Sure, there are some
dissonances, but they're minor.
If the GUI is ever to evolve past the point-and-grunt stage, users are
either going to have to get smarter, or the machines will have to become
more adaptive. Think of a car: it is a pretty technical piece of machinery
in its own right, and besides learning how to operate it, people *also*
have to learn a lot of complicated road-rules before they are allowed a
license. And yet the vast majority of people are able to learn how to
operate a vehicle.
Computers are really no more complex to use than an automobile for the
layperson; it's just that people have had "ease of use" hammered into their
heads for so long by software vendors that they now quail at every little
error dialog. If we don't demand any more of the users, they'll remain
helpless and bewildered forever.
We need to be thinking about how to *advance* the human/machine interface,
not just reinvent it over and over again using the same tired old
metaphors. I'm not saying that we should just throw away all the good work
that's been done to date, but why simply try to emulate something else when
you can try new and different things? Sure, the experiments might fail,
but so what? We have the flexibility in the Open Source world to try new
things; we are not driven by shareholders or boards of directors.
Regards,
quux111
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:29:06 GMT
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> If Microsoft wants to earn the same respect as the likes of NCR, UNISYS or
> Xerox, then maybe they should start porting IE to more than just Mac,
> Windows and a few obscure UNIX's.
They might also try doing a half way decent job in those ports too. I've
tried all the IE versions for Solaris, and it makes Netscape look like one of
the best apps ever written.
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
[Bart & Lisa are reading a magazine at the Kwik-E-Mart.]
Apu: "Hey, hey, this is not a lending library. If you're
not going to buy that thing put it down or I'll blow your heads off!"
-- Simpsons
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Intermediate user who left Windows for Linux
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:29:42 GMT
On 22 May 2001 17:40:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>You're an idiot. They send that to everyone with a registered license.
1. The copy hadn't even been registered.
2. All forms of electronic updating, version checking etc were turned
off before even going on the net.
3. I purposly mis-spell my name differently on different product
registrations and keep track of it, so I can see where spam/snail mail
is originating from.
The flyer came with the mis-spelling I chose for Win2k which is
different by a letter or 2 from everything else I have ever registered
with them.
3. I have been a registered Windows user since V1.0 circa 1983 and
have NEVER received a flyer from MS like that.
Nope.
They are up to no good.
>Having never once owned a license for W2K, I never recieved such a flyer.
>
>No matter how many machines I ran it on in my house.
Neither had I up until now.
>
>
>
>-----.
flatfish++++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:33:38 -0500
"Michael Marion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> > If Microsoft wants to earn the same respect as the likes of NCR, UNISYS or
> > Xerox, then maybe they should start porting IE to more than just Mac,
> > Windows and a few obscure UNIX's.
Yeah, you know, those "few obscure UNIX's" like Solaris, HP-UX,
and Digital Unix.
If those are obscure, what's your definition of common?
> They might also try doing a half way decent job in those ports too. I've
> tried all the IE versions for Solaris, and it makes Netscape look like one of
> the best apps ever written.
Really?
Netscape runs about 40% of time on my Solaris box here at work.
Most of the time, I click the web-browser button and nothing
happens or I just get a core dump.
I only use IE on Solaris now because it's the only thing that
works! It's pretty decent, actually. It renders pages as they
are supposed to appear rather than destroying them like
Netscape, and it doesn't have that annoying refresh problem
when resizing the window.
-c
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum:
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:34:22 GMT
Gary Hallock wrote:
> Connecting + to + and - to - will work. The reason for connecting to
> the car chasis instead of directly to the battery is that it lessens the
> chance of an explosion due to a spark at the battery terminal igniting
> gas coming from the battery. Of course, to make this work, you have to
> connect to the chasis after making all other connections.
With most recent cars I've seen jumped.. it doesn't work hooking the batteries
up directly.. but move the right clip to the chasis and the engine will start
right up.
It's still annoying to see engineers not even bothering to look at their car
manual when they can't get something to work.
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
Brian: "Oh man! What a night I had last night. I met the _most_... fantastic
woman; I had the most passionate night of my life. We made a connection like
you would not believe."
Joe: "What was her name?"
Brian: "Eh, I don't know."
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rather humorous posting on news.com commentry forum:
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:35:38 GMT
GreyCloud wrote:
> $950 for a SunBlade 100. I'm seriously thinking of getting one and I
> already have a 19" monitor.
I think you'd be happy. I haven't had any hands on with 100's because they're
too low end for us (our lowest end boxes now are U60s). The Blade 1000's are
pretty nice though.
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
Brian: "Oh man! What a night I had last night. I met the _most_... fantastic
woman; I had the most passionate night of my life. We made a connection like
you would not believe."
Joe: "What was her name?"
Brian: "Eh, I don't know."
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:38:27 -0500
"Brian Langenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9eeah6$f9i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <drivel snipped>
>
> What a headline: "MS-Windows User Enjoys More MS-Windows"
"... because basic usability you expect in an OS is there,
whereas it isn't in Linux".
Another big shocker =)
> : and copy and paste is still much much better between apps, as opposed to the
> : hit and miss copy/paste support in Linux.
>
> I'm still waiting for Windows to support the middle mouse button for
> pasting like practically EVERY SINGLE X11 CLIENT EVER WRITTEN.
So just set it up to do that. More than likely you either have an
MS Intellipoint or a Logitech mouse of some kind, both have the
ability to configure this.
> Keystrokes for copying/pasting is truly a pain in the ass...
I though you guys hated the mousy-clicky stuff?
-c
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:48:20 +0200
"Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:r1yO6.37130$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9ecl8t$71d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:3IgO6.34587$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > So, now that we've got you bent over with your pants down, why don't
> you
> > > > tell us what "core" means, accurately, consistently, and
practically,
> so
> > > > that the spanking can continue?
> > >
> > > How about, "the smallest set of products that, if somehow
> > > lost, would derail Microsofts business model, future
> > > plans, etc".
> >
> > NT/2K/XP Kernel? :-}
>
> MS could surely soldier on with Windows 9x
> for quite some time, I think.
Dear god, NO!
> I think both Windows 9x and NT need to be
> in there; losing either would seem to derail
> their current plans.
No, 9x is being killed. I understand that there is no more 9x team, only bug
fixes.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: 22 May 2001 18:55:32 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Michael Marion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>>
>> > If Microsoft wants to earn the same respect as the likes of NCR, UNISYS or
>> > Xerox, then maybe they should start porting IE to more than just Mac,
>> > Windows and a few obscure UNIX's.
>
>Yeah, you know, those "few obscure UNIX's" like Solaris, HP-UX,
>and Digital Unix.
>
>If those are obscure, what's your definition of common?
Linux, FreeBSD. The number of people using web browsers on Linux is probably
ten times the number of people using web browsers in Solaris,
HP-UX and DU combined.
The unix-like desktop market is so Linux+FreeBSD centric it's not even
funny.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: 22 May 2001 18:58:47 GMT
Chad Myers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I though you guys hated the mousy-clicky stuff?
When will you learn, Chad? There is no "you guys." Linux users are
best defined by their diversity. What I like, another user may
despise. From more or less the same large set of packages that are
collectively called a Linux system (or, to make RMS happy, a GNU/Linux
system), we are all able to pick, choose, and configure to create the
desktop or server environment in which we are most comfortable.
Those who cannot handle such choice simply accept whatever Microsoft says
is the only way to do things this week.
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RIP the Linux desktop
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:02:16 GMT
"~¿~" wrote:
> Something is happening though. The classes for Unix at the local university
> where I live are suffering marked declines in enrollment. Some aren't even
> making. Dot.com syndrome? I'm not sure, but the numbers don't lie.
Hmm.. funny. Here it's just the opposite.
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
Newspaper Editor: "We're looking for a new food critic, someone who doesn't
immediately 'poo-poo' everything he eats."
Homer: "Nah it usually takes a few hours." -- The Simpsons
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:02:56 GMT
On Tue, 22 May 2001 16:59:28 GMT, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Peter Köhlmann in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 21 May 2001
>>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>>>
>>> You'd have to be pretty clueless, Gary, not to be aware of the duality
>>> of physics. If radio waves were the same as light waves, how come we
>>> can't see them?
>>>
>>How come that we don´t see infrared?
>
>Because the wavelengths don't cause the same changes in the molecules in
>our eyeballs. Same reason we don't see radio waves themselves. It
>doesn't keep infrared from being 'light'. Why should it keep radio
>waves from being 'light'?
>
>>I simply can´t believe this discussion.
>
>Then apparently you don't understand it. As I said, it has to do with
>the ineffable fact that light is both particle and wave. GreyCloud has
>been questioning some of the common understanding of the issue by
>explaining that by mathematically explaining light as 'quantum energy
>packets', not either particle or wave, light speeds up and slows down as
>it changes media.
>
>>And that from americans, where the
>>world thought they are great engineers and scientists.
>
>Indeed; the ability to engage in free inquiry is fundamental to the work
>of scientists. Engineering is not the issue here, though we must
>acknowledge we can claim no leadership in the engineering involved for
>the USA in quantum physics, since Reagan canceled the SSC.
>
>>I think you should start making horseshoes again, because you will need
>>them badly in the next years. Just forget about electricity and such other
>>advanced stuff.
>
>What the fuck is your problem? You know something about GreyCloud's
>math, and how to refute it, that none of us are aware of? Or do you
>just want to take pot-shots at Americans for no apparent reason? Are
>you perhaps just foundering while you grasp for any straw to explain why
>you are so unable to make sense of so dreadfully simple a discussion?
And yet another example of how T-Bone waits for the question to be
properly answered and then proceeds to parrot the answer.
Just like he did with the Direct-X discussion.
You could at least try and change a few words to make it look good.
flatfish++++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,soc.men,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: evolutionary (oh boy) psychology: the short form
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:06:15 -0400
Danielle wrote:
>
> On Tue, 22 May 2001 00:23:38 -0700, "jet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Aaron R. Kakis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> jackie wrote:
> >> > amusingly enough if homosexuality is genetic the genes promoting it may
> >> > well be more numerous today because homophobia is so universal. that is
> >> > to say, by forcing men who would prefer the only the company of men to
> >> > marry a beard society has generated more of the very thing that might
> >> ^^^^^
> >> is this a typo?
> >
> >LOL! Aaron you have reached levels of ignorance that are shocking even for
> >you!
> >
> >A beard is a member of the opposite sex a homosexual person gets married to,
> >or has a similar kind of relationship with, in order to look straight.
> >
> >J
>
> I didn't know that either.
Apparently, Danielle, it's a black mark if you don't hang out with the depraved.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
