Linux-Advocacy Digest #997, Volume #26 Fri, 9 Jun 00 18:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (tinman)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Boys Club for Linux ("James")
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (tinman)
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (tinman)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Oliver Chung)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Marty)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul_'Z'_Ewande=A9?=)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (tinman)
Re: Boys Club for Linux ("James")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 21:44:20 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Stephen) writes:
>My apologies to all other more "normal" Americans. I have many
>friends in America and value them greatly. I assure you that
>they are not at all like Germer. However if a unflattering
>caricature were to given of a American, it would be a picture of
>you. You seem to fit the Boorish American model to a T.
Is Bob Germer really *worth* the time and attention you are
devoting to him, Mike? The only "stereotype" Germer fits is the
stereotype depicted in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of
the American Psychiatric Association. See "paranoid," any
subtype. Hostile, belligerent, overbearing, obsessive and
grandiose.
Karen
Where do I want to go today?
I want to go where *I* want to go,
Not where MS wants to send me.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 17:49:40 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Josiah Fizer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pascal Haakmat wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >There may be some
> > >technical reasons why a command line might be more powerful, but that's not
> > >really why we use them. We don't use command lines because they're better,
> > >and certainly not because somebody forced us. We actually use them because
> > >we like them.
> >
> > Hurrah!
> >
> > [snip]
> >
>
> Speek for your self, I would rather use a GUI as I'm a lazy bastard. However
> there is not now nor will there ever be a GUI way to do 'ping 131.161.50.1 |
> grep "is alive"' etc.
Oh, come on, be inventive! I see a ping program with four fields with
arrow rollovers to set the number and a drag and drop space to redirect
output to another app....
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: 9 Jun 2000 16:44:25 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> "interoperability" as you define it is somewhat meaningless.
>> Passing off some imbedded binary data to another application
>> and making it look like it's all integrated is slight of hand
>> not "interoperability".
>
>You just don't get it, do you? There are no streams of data flying around
>under the hood to make this happen. Not a single part of the app is even
>aware that anything is happening. I guess you're just not going to understand
>it clearly until you've used the workplace shell of OS/2. There's no slight
>of hand involved. It's an extremely elegant and OO solution, which guarantees
>future interoperability. You just can't find solutions like that on Unix
>based platforms.
Will it work with java applets running under a browser? VNC control
of other boxes? Telnet to something else? X programs running
elsewhere?
>Your aim was to point out how this could be used to show system
>interoperability, was it not? I stated that a solution such as VoiceType
>could only be implemented effectively on one box, showing the value of
>application interoperability, and you challenged that statement.
My keyboard works with all of the above.
>But you were attempting to tell me about the wonder of system interoperability
>for home users. How can you claim any reasonable amount of interoperability
>if you have to rely on a specific installation of an OS? Are you going to
>convince Sun to install these daemons? How about HP? IBM for their AIX
>platforms? They all support the X protocol, so you should have
>interoperability with all of these systems, right? I'll stick to VoiceType,
>DDE, and my proprietary but cozy Workplace Shell, thanks just the same.
Are you just using the computer to replace a typewriter? If not, how
do you make it deal with the rest of the world?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Boys Club for Linux
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:48:41 +0200
Mr Maybe,
Thanks for the compliment. However, I am sure there are many thoroughbred
Linux geeks who deserves the label more than I do. I like Linux, but notice
its shortcomings, and post accordingly, and hopefully in a constructive
nature. Currently I mostly use Win2k at the office, and Mandrake 7.1 and
Win2k at home. I think Linux has a great future if it realizes its
shortcomings and correct those. I believe the purpose of this newsgroup is
to debate Linux pros and cons, in an effort to improve it. It should not be
a forum for self-praise!!!
James
"LinuxMaybe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Linux users are a bunch of sniveling little immature boys. Big on
> nasty comments, foul language, and wobbly arguments. There is a
> difference between advocacy and the smear campaigns you conduct. Here
> are just a few of the *many* guilty parties:
>
> Jeff carroll
> Charlie Ebert
> pac4854
> Chris Ahlstrom
> Terry Porter
> sandrews
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> simon777
>
>
> Don't get me wrong,, I happen to think Linux has a lot of potential.
> Unfortunately, the users of it are members of a little Boys club.
> Grow up and maybe your operating system will too!
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 17:52:16 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nathaniel Jay Lee
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Happy users don't complain, therefore, the boss doesn't hear anything
> from them. In the meetings where they all talk, the bitcher talks for
> an hour about what he wants, then everyone else says something to the
> effect of, "What we have works." Since they only spend a few seconds
> saying what they need to say, what the bitcher says sticks better.
That's bad. I'd hand out some QA feedback forms and start getting some
positive data in front of the boss...
> I
> have been asked by the boss what it would take to move to NT and I gave
> him a cost estimate and told him that he would also need to hire a
> different person for administration because I won't be doing it. His
> response hasn't come yet. Needless to say, I have begun the job hunt.
Well, I wouldn't have tied the two together like that, but hey, tactic
vary. Good luck in the hunt.
> I don't know. A few hundred thousand in sales and shipped goods in
> about six months seems like somebody must be getting some work done, but
> heh, who the hell knows what the boss thinks?
I know what mine thinks, but I've got a good one (they are hard to find tho).
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 17:54:01 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nathaniel Jay Lee
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Oh yeah, one other thing I failed to mention. This guy came from the
> company I worked at before, and he made my life a living hell there
> too. He had a laptop and decided that every game that came out had to
> be installed on it. I swear to god I had to reformat and reload his
> machine at least every two weeks, if not more. And every time we had to
> go through why *I* was not going to be the one to load up his fucking
> games for hime and why *I* was not going to support the games if he did
> put them on again. It was because of people like him, and this exact
> same person that I left that other job and started this one. Now, the
> people I work for hired him to do the same job he did at the other
> company and I'm right back to his constant bitchin'. Oh well, at least
> I can still go home at night.
Now this is starting to make sense. You're obviously cursed. You must have
done something terrible to whack your karma that way. I suggest pray and
the burning of incense and pouring on libations....('
[snip]
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:31:38 GMT
On 06/04/2000 at 08:39 PM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne) said:
> My little brother has bought a house on a military salary, and he's
> enlisted, not officer. That's not something US military enlisted folk
> can when they're using food stamps... Of course, he doesn't drink, and
> thus lacks one of the major expenses :-).
What sort of propaganda are you listening to? At least 10% of the
homeowners in our development are enlisted members of the US Army, Air
Force, or Navy. It is only the three lowest ranks with wives and children
who qualify for food stamps. After 4 years, the salaries are too high. My
grandson entered the Air Force in September 1999. He just was promoted to
E-3 and will be eligible for promotion to E-4 by the end of this year.
Enlisted men are not eligible for base housing for families until they
reach E-4. Those who are incompetent (failing to gain promotion to E-4)
and who are married and choose to live off-base are the ones who qualify
for food stamps. Even then, some of them do buy homes! Owning a home does
not disqualify one from getting food stamps and medicaid.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:41:34 GMT
On 06/05/2000 at 09:23 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Sounds like the US pays doctors better so the doctors move south.
> Doesn't sound like a Canadian problem, but a demand for doctors in the
> US.
No, John, it is all about freedom from Government interference. In Canada,
the government regulates the income of physicians. The US does not. In
Canada, the government determines where and when a person can get care.
The US does not. In Canada, the goverment takes a much bigger bite out of
income via taxation than in the US.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Oliver Chung)
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 02:22:12 GMT
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) wrote
>On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 02:16:35 GMT, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Bob Hauck wrote:
>>>
>>> This is not "the right way":
[ accessor example snipped]
>>> Any encapsulation here is purely an illusion.
I beg to disagree. You will see the effects of encapsulation when you
need to change things later. See below.
>>The above design has its uses, as it prevents subsequent users of the class
>>from *inadvertantly* modifying the data.
>The difference between m.set_a (14) and m.a = 14 is largely in your mind.
>The above code is quite equivalent to just using a struct (and it may well
>be optimized to the same code by the compiler) only it takes more verbiage
>to express and does not really provide any benefit over using a struct.
Until you find out you have to add other functions to it, such as
sending notification to other objects or updating databases when a or b
changes, then you would thank God you have used accessors in the first
place.
>Using a struct where one is appropriate is not a bad thing. Using a class
>where a struct is appropriate is.
>If you're going to use a class, then you may as well validate the input at
>least. And perhaps a little more abstraction wouldn't hurt either. What
>are a and b? How are they related? What is the required behavior of this
>class? What are the allowed states? Thinking about those issues should
>generate something more than the above. If not, if the class is just a
>place to stow some information, then use a struct and be done with it.
There are times when a class really does nothing more than a struct,
but using a class with accessors in the first place isolates whatever
changes you may need later on. Even if the class have other methods
which manipulates a and b, you may still need accessors for them.
The example I used most is implementing a Complex class to represents
complex numbers. If you have used variables "x" and "y" to represent
x+yi and simply exposed them, imagine how much changes you need to
convert to polar form because your program did a lot of
muliplications/divisions with them. If you have used accessor from the
start, the change would be transparent.
______
Oliver Chung
> My opinions are my own < > Happy Warp user <
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------------------------------
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:25:15 GMT
On 06/05/2000 at 02:13 PM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) said:
> Are you still here, germer? I thought you ran away in shame the last
> time every single last person on this newsgroup proved that you were a
> paranoid, delusional, raving lunatic?
You obviously cannot read. There is not a day in the past months I didn't
post here. But then I guess you were on your medication for a while and
are now obviously back off it.
> And as far as macos goes, the deciding factor was cost, not efficiency.
The Mac OS failed because it was rejected by American business which
adopted the Intel platform because of much superior software, choices
regarding hardware, easier employee training, etc. The Mac was seen as a
basic machine suitable only for the classroom by the leaders of American
Industry which was a very, very accurate assessment of what was, is and
will remain a bit player in a minor road company of the computer world.
Even the toy company produced Amiga of 1985 was superior to today's
plastic bubble game consoles called Macs.
> Idiot.
You certainly are. Only a true idiot on drugs and with serious mental
disorders would consider a Mac superior to anything beyond an Atari.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:54:56 GMT
Bob Germer wrote:
>
> Many US states have nicknames for their citizens. New Yorkers are also
> called Knickerbockers.
I grew up on LI and was no stranger to NYC, but I've never heard this used as
such. Perhaps that was before my time.
> These are not demeaning, perjorative, etc. terms. They are just handy
> nicknames like Mike for Michael.
"Knickerbockers" sure doesn't seem more handy than "New Yorkers".
> Speaking of New Yorkers. Do you know where a New Yorker keeps his whiskey?
No, but maybe if you hum a few bars...
------------------------------
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:41:09 GMT
On 06/05/2000 at 01:29 PM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson) said:
> Was it 60 minutes that did that "news" bit about GM truck exploding in
> side impacts? where they set off incendiaries under the tank, after
> having overfilled the tank and leaving the cap off, then filmed the
> ensuing fire and explosions as "proof"?
Among several other absolutely false reports.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Thr, 8 Jun 2000 15:06:55 GMT
On 06/08/2000 at 09:01 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Actually, I think you'll find most large and medium companies do deals
> with salesmen and not through the retail channel. What you see on the
> web site is *not* what the large companies are buying.
They still are buying from the same OEM's and all supplied Win9x for the
past 6 years whether the company wanted it or not. I have dealt with HP,
Compaq, Dell, IBM, etc. on purchases of as many as 500 machines and they
would not provide bare machines or machines w/o Windows or NT.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul_'Z'_Ewande=A9?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:32:43 GMT
"JEDIDIAH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message news:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 6 Jun 2000 19:55:21 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In article <8hisnj$281$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >=?iso-8859-1?Q?Paul_'Z'_Ewande=A9?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>
> >>> > Down? Working correctly for years at a time is a bad thing?
> >>>
> >>> Lacking essential features is a bad thing. Stability is not the
> >>> end all and be all of everything, it's just the area where some
> >>> Unix flavors are strong.
> >>
> >>I don't care for a system which goes on and on for years, since I
generally
> >>turn it off when I'm done with it, especially if it doesn't do what I
would
> >>like it to do ?
>
> The fact that it can go on and on and on for years is merely a
> reflection of the fact that is is unlikely to stop working
> before you have ordained it. Downtime isn't the problem, UNPLANNED
> downtime is. That's what robustness prevents and why in any other
> product is is valued.
Agreed. But, my computer 99.44% of the time stays up long enough form me to
do my stuff _and_ allows me to do my stuff.
> You don't want your TV to stop working in the middle of that great
> show, or your car to suddenly break when you are on that Arizona
> highway.
So you can conceive that I may be happy with my Windows systems since they
work from the moment I turn them on, do my stuff, and turn them off ?
Just for kicks I've kept my NT at work on to see when it will croak. So
far...
========================================================
C:\Tools>uptime
Uptime - system uptime utility for Windows NT
by Mark Russinovich
Systems Internals - http://www.sysinternals.com
This computer has been up for 13 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, 30 seconds.
C:\Tools>
========================================================
Paul 'Z' Ewande
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 17:56:53 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charlie Ebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>
> I can see Bill Gates mounting his horse right now!
EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW! Really, is it absolutely necessary to bring in his sex
life to this discussion? I was just about to eat dinner.....
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Boys Club for Linux
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:55:53 +0200
Mr Maybe,
Since we are not following the rules of proper advocacy, perhaps you could
define a standard protocol that would meet your approval.
Don't bitch. Participate.
James
"LinuxMaybe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Linux users are a bunch of sniveling little immature boys. Big on
> nasty comments, foul language, and wobbly arguments. There is a
> difference between advocacy and the smear campaigns you conduct. Here
> are just a few of the *many* guilty parties:
>
> Jeff carroll
> Charlie Ebert
> pac4854
> Chris Ahlstrom
> Terry Porter
> sandrews
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> simon777
>
>
> Don't get me wrong,, I happen to think Linux has a lot of potential.
> Unfortunately, the users of it are members of a little Boys club.
> Grow up and maybe your operating system will too!
>
------------------------------
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