Linux-Advocacy Digest #997, Volume #30 Wed, 20 Dec 00 21:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("John W. Stevens")
radio frequency transmitters (was Re: Windoze 2000) (LShapingAtWhateverISP)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Whistler review. (Bob Hauck)
Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451894 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Joe Malloy")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Joe Malloy")
Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451899 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! (A transfinite number of
monkeys)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! (A transfinite number of
monkeys)
Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux! (A transfinite number of
monkeys)
Re: Uptimes ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451894 ("Chad C. Mulligan")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:30:13 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> Actually, I do think he's quite crazy in a small area of his life,
> but probably quite normal otherwise.
You're entitled to your opinion! ;-)
> Sounds like schizo to me!
> Or, as I mentioned, he could just enjoy trolling me and watching
> me shoot off like a rocket.
In which case, you pleased him no end.
> > Do you, by chance, have a degree that at least in some minor way
> > qualifies you to make these kinds of diagnosis?
>
> Of course not, this is a newsgroup, not a hospital board! How many
> of you guys have a degree that allows you to talk about why a
> "liberal" is a "communist" and a "baby killer"?
Gronk!
> Sheeesh.
As I was saying . . .
>
> > Just curious, mind you . . . I have a tendency to believe that your
> > description (re: delusional, automated, schizophrenic troll) is
> > self-referential, but that's just my opinion.
>
> It could well be true. How will you ever know? <smile>
I won't . . . I was just playing 'wit 'cha!
|-)
> > "The easiest way to enslave a man, is to convince him that he is
> > a free thinker."
>
> Cute. But you need to remove the space between "free" and "thinker".
> Makes a big difference -- just ask Bertrand Russell (consult his
> autobiography, since currently he's dead.)
Err . . . no, I don't need to remove the space . . . it was meant
to be there. Go back, leave the space in, and read it for the
different meaning . . . it's meant to be a subtle little un-funny,
un-joke.
;-)
> At least, John Stevens, you are clever and obviously very good
> at thinking on your feet, quite unlike that other fellow. And you're
> spelling is very good, too.
Ta-Dah! And WITHOUT A NET (spell checker) too!
8-))
>
> Oh, by the way, HP device drivers suck! <just a joke!!!!>
That's NOT FUNNY!
:-)
'Course, seriously for a moment, if you have real complaints, let's
hear 'em. Can't fix what we don't know you don't like . . .
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: LShapingAtWhateverISP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: radio frequency transmitters (was Re: Windoze 2000)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:29:46 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> LShaping wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> > >(FM transmitters can fit into microphones
> > If the transmitter can run off of the microphones power source,
> > because they require a lot of power. I do not know what the state
> Depends on the power level.
> I have a couple complete Mic + fm transmitter circuit + antenna
> that fits on the head of a 9V battery.
> 1 Watt broadcast power.
A 9v alkaline will last prabably about 7 hours at that rate.
LShaping
> > of the art is, just that transmitters require one thousand times
> > more power (a rough estimate) than receivers.
>
> true.
>
> > LShaping
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues
against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:37:17 -0700
LShaping wrote:
>
> "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Johan Kullstam wrote:
>
> >> face it, lincoln was not conservative.
>
> >Lincoln was indeed a conservative. You need merely understand that
> >"conservative" does NOT mean: "resists all change" to understand that.
> >"Conservative", comes from the concept of "conserving". Conserving
> >human rights and individual liberty is at least part of what the Civil
> >War was all about.
>
> In fact, not in your opinion, conservatism is "the tendency to prefer
> an existing or traditional situation to change".
Which was implied in the "conserving" notion.
"Conservation" is, after all, "the tendency to prefer existing or
traditional [ecological] situations to change", right?
Which always boggled me . . . wouldn't liberals be gung-ho about
destroying the existing ecological situation in favor of the new?
;-)
> Definitions are
> based upon usage,
Not neccessarily . . . defintions can be CHANGED by usage, but to state
that usage defines, is to strip language of its ability to communicate.
> not your idea of what a word should or did mean, or
> where it came from. Unless you want to live in a corner by yourself,
> you have to accept how words are being used by real people today.
And if carried to extremes, definition-by-usage turns language into a
vehicle suited only for propaganda and political spin.
Imagine trying to program in a computer language where keywords "meant"
what "usage" defined them as . . . YECCH! 8-{
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:43:41 GMT
On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 03:07:01 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 01:43:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck) wrote:
>>Never had that problem with Ghostscript. It prints to the same printer
>>just fine (also missing some features).
>Yea like Color output <snicker>....
Yes, it is pretty hard to get color output on a 5si, since it isn't a
color printer. It is a b&w laser intended for workgroup use. OTOH,
Linux can print color just fine on my Deskjet 683C. So you have a point
Steve?
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451894
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:57:18 GMT
Curtis writes:
> Sandman posted:
>> Matthew Soltysiak wrote:
>>> And why are people bothering with this fool?? Ignore him. He's an idiot.
>> Aaron Kulkis or Dave Tholen?
>>
>> Just clarification. :)
> Both.
Classic pontification.
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:00:03 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tholes:
>> >>> Correction: Tholen uses OS/2
>>
>> >> Tholen isn't that smart.
>>
>> > You're right that Tholen isn't that smart. In fact, he's rather
>dumb.
>
>> Have been for a decade. [Just had to restore what Tholen doesn't
want seen.]
> >> I edited your comments so that they would say what you meant.
No
> >> thanks necessary, Tholen!
>
> > HAHAHAHAH!!! Good one, Joe!!
>
> Doesn't surprise me that you would enjoy the dishonest alteration
of
> what someone wrote. It just demonstrates the depths to which
you'll
> stoop to find something -- anything -- to antagonize, Glatt.
Prove that the statement made above, to which Jeff reacts with
pleasure, is wrong, Tholen, if you can.
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:00:20 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tholes:
> >>> Ah, I see. So we're supposed to do what in these forums
(fora?), again?
>
> >> Come to conclusions using a little logic.
>
> > Or in the case of Tholen, very, very, very little logic... in
the form
> > of "circular"
>
> Or in the case of Glatt, make claims with zero substantiation.
Or in the case of Tholen, try to use some trademarked stuff called
"loggik" to blunt your opponent into submission.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451899
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:06:41 GMT
Today's Kulkis digest. He's back up to eight postings per digest.
31> Since Tholen is an oxygen thief, you must be an oxygen pickpocket.
Classic invective.
32> I suggest you try getting accepted to a REAL university-level
32> computer institution, like Berkely, MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, or
32> Purdue...
Then you too can learn how to compose a 38-line .sig and use it every
day! Of course, that presupposes that Kulkis went to one of those
institutions.
32> When you've done that...then get back to me.
With his own 38-line .sig.
33> I prefer to make the fool suffer.
You're suffering?
34> LENGTHWISE, Tholen....slice LENGTHWISE.
35> LENGTHWISE, Tholen....slice LENGTHWISE.
36> LENGTHWISE, Tholen....slice LENGTHWISE.
37> You still haven't sacrificed yourself to the volcano, Oxygen Thief.
37>
37> What's the fucking hold up, you miserable waste of skin...
38> You're just not sentient enough to notice.
38>
38> Oxygen deprivation does that, you know.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:09:45 GMT
On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:55:58 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >SoundBlaster Live!
:
: Tell me how you get surround sound, or digital audio via the digital
: audio spid/f connector under Linux?
Typical, change the point we're arguing when you're shown to be wrong...
: Tell me about LiveWare for Linux?
A goofy looking mixer and a "launcher" that isn't useful for anything
besides chewing up extra RAM? Oh yeah, where do I sign up?
: Supported?
Sure is.
: >Creative Annihilator 2 (GeForce 2 GTS based card)
:
: And you get full use of all the 3d stuff and acceleration under Linux?
Sure do. Pull your head out of the sand.
: Big deal. Windows supports them as well, and all of the software that
: comes with them works the way it is supposed to, as well as the
: special offer software (I got Wordperfect Office 2000 professional for
: $8.00 when I bought my Lexmark printer) works as well. With Linux you
: get to use software that looks like it was written 10 years ago.
Quit changing the subject. You're wrong, plain and simple. Just deal
with your state of wrongness, and move on.
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:05:08 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> "John W. Stevens" wrote:
> >
> > Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> > > [snippage]
> > >
> > > You're a paranoiac.
> >
> > Yet more "net-psychoanalysis"?
> >
> > You realize you are being a flaming hypocrite here, don't you?
> >
> > Either that, or you owe an apology to the guy you lambasted for doing
> > the same thing you are doing here . . .
>
> Well, I don't feel I really owe an apology to a guy who says things
> like:
Hey, so long as you don't take yourself too seriously . . .
> :: Not really. A casual look at the facts would reveal that liberals
> :: use deceit, lies, and misrepresented facts to prove their claim.
While I disagree with some of the other stuff he says, I have to go
along on this one.
IMO:
A great many of the claims made by Democrats (widely viewed as
"liberals") in the post-election debacle were deceitful, a
misrepresentation of
the facts, and in some cases, out right lies.
Just today, Molly Ivins (an old-style liberal) states in her news paper
column that actually upholding and following the Constitution is "the
most frightening thing I've ever seen".
This, from a party that repeatedly claimed to support the rule of law?
What's so terrifying about upholding and following the Constitution?
Why would *ANY* American consider it frightening to do so?
What advantage is there in making unsupportable allegations, or
mis-representing your opponents stance? What's so hard to understand
about "must", and "shall"?
I'm disgusted by the whole thing, but I'm especially disgusted by people
who loudly claim that Al Gore won.
HE LOST.
I'm disgusted by any and all references to "the national popular vote".
Such references are either indications of someone who is wildly
ignorant, or who does not uphold the Constitution of the USA.
THE NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE IS AS MEANINGFUL IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AS
THE NUMBER OF Z's IN A CANDIDATES LAST NAME.
We don't hold a national vote for President. We vote for electoral
college representatives. The only "national vote" for President is held
b the electoral college representatives.
In short,
AL GORE LOST THE NATIONAL VOTE.
Why are the Democrats unwilling to talk truthfully about this issue?
I'm especially disgusted by claims that "Al Gore would have won if all
the votes had been counted!"
ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED!
What was left were BALLOTS, not VOTES. As Justice O'Connor said: the
only real standard for defining a "vote", in place at the time the
election was held was what the counting machines implemented. And the
machines did not consider those ballots to have votes on them
The Democrats are calling for the imposition of an outright tyranny. Do
we really want to do this?
Where's Harry Browne when you really need him?
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:14:27 GMT
On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:22:15 GMT, John Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >What you really mean is that although they "work", they are not as
: >good as the Windows versions and your card is not performing up to the
: >level of performance it was designed for.
:
: No it performs very well in either OS (TNT2 Ultra), because erm...the drivers
: are the same genious.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q3/000811/
Tom's testing clearly shows Nvidia performance on par or better in some
cases with Windoze.
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Intel Easy PC camera - cannot be supported in Linux!
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:23:52 GMT
On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:13:16 GMT, Kyle Jacobs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: All this hardware works because they all have the fortune of being based
: around America's top 10% hardware.
The discussion has nothing to do with your "top 10%". It has everything
to do with some tart's statement that Linux only supports archaic
hardware.
: 3. Microsoft Intellimouse: It's a mouse. With token support for USB (which
: was desgined around supporting MICE and Keyboards) in the Linux kernel, this
: works.
Oh, "token" support. Heh. Pretty advanced for "token" support.
: 4.Xirlink USB camera: Uses the same TWAIN dynamics that digicam's and
: scanners used since the Casio QV-10, why it works over USB? Luck.
Luck? Hardly, ibmcam.o actually.
: 5.HP LaserJet 2100M: I'll bet you this thing doesn't work outside of 75DPI
: printing. This printer features legacy firmware so it can accomidate a lack
: of software commands.
Much to your surprise, it prints quite nicely at 1200 dpi. Implementing
PCL6 and PS Level 2 is "legacy" and a "lack of software commands", eh?
: 8.USB-ZIP250: Linux's USB layer was engeneered with mice, keyboards and
: iomega's USB devices in mind. No DUH that this works.
The usb-storage.o module implements the USB mass storage protocols to a
"T". USB LS-120 drives & floppies work fine too. Oh, did I forget
to mention that USB ethernet adapters work just fine too.
: 9.Jaz 1G: It's a tape drive, it's from iomega. But it's still a tape drive.
It's not a tape drive. It's a removable media disk drive. Why not go
buy yourself a clue?
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:29:29 GMT
"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:91qho8$2kr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8aq%5.32190$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Martin Ozolins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --
> > Martin Ozolins
> > Project Manager
> > ComputerWorks Technologies
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > (818)244-4440
> > "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:916hel$el3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <AEjZ5.1597$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:910mjj$pk4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MS has no problem using Netcraft numbers as fact, Why do
> you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because I'm not Microsoft.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's right, you are a nobody that posts only his opinion and
> NO
> > > > > SUPPORTING documemnt to a news group.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Microsoft is a Dominate force in the industry (unlike you), CNN
> is a
> > > > > dominate force in it's industry (unlike you) and both of these
> > > Dominate
> > > > > forces (And you are NOT a dominate force) have indorsed Netcraft
> as
> > > a
> > > > > viable source of data. You have provided absolutely NO
> documentation
> > > to
> > > > > prove otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > At least my newsreader has a spelling checker. When are you going
> to
> > > RPM
> > > > yours?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > IAC, It isn't necessary for one to be a "Dominate" (Dominant
> Maybe)
> > > force in
> > > > the industry to know when someone is presenting a line of total
> > > bullshit. I
> > > > have never claimed to present anything beyond my opinion, an
> opinion
> > > that is
> > > > rather more informed than your own, obviously.
> > >
> > >
> > > What a crock of BS!
> > >
> >
> > Where's your supporting documentation or is that just your opinion.
>
> When chad actualy posts some documentation that supports any of his
> "opinions" I'll think about posting some evidance of his BS. Untill
> then:
>
> My opinion is that W2K is *NOT* stable. Evidance of this is at
>
> www.netcraft.com
> www.uptimes.org
>
Still dancing with bogus numbers eh?
> What documentation has chad posted that supports his "opinion"?
>
Many others have posted corroborating evidence that my opinions were, on the
whole, more accurate than yours anyway.
> www.chadrules.not
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.netcraft.com/news.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Black Dragon
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sign The Linux Driver Petition:
> > > > > > > > > http://www.libralinux.com/petition.english.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > > > > Before you buy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > > Before you buy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent via Deja.com
> > > http://www.deja.com/
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:34:48 GMT
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The point is that Alpha and Beta releases are part of a normal software
> > development cycle whether you develop for windows or any other
> > platform.
>
> It's normal for some vendors to distribute prereleases with those
> labels, but it's not a necessity. Microsoft does, and thus positions
> itself somewhere between Linux, where *all* development is available,
> and other systems, which only ship released, finished products.
>
It is normal for most, if not all developers, to use the tag "beta" for
software that isn't ready for release but requires wide spread testing.
Such software usually has the feature set frozen but the final debugging
(hint) is not yet complete. The beta release is a technique used by
developers to get as many testing machines as possible and to find as many
bugs so the finally released package is of proper quality. Source (CSIS
101)
> > The pont is that beta software cannot and should not be considered a
> > released product and the lack of released product is the issue.
>
> It's only a label. Personally, I couldn't care less whether a thing
> is "released" or not, what matters is the quality. If labels matter
> to you, get a Linux distribution from a vendor who puts a version
> number on it - and it's all "released".
>
It isn't only a label, see above.
> This would mean RH7 is "released" and Debian Woody is not, but I find
> the latter to have much higher quality, and so I use that.
>
> > If you don't understand the development cycle and how to complete a
> > project (IMO something that OSS is rather poor at)
>
> I agree. OSS is about developers. This is in many ways a good thing,
> because it means less contamination from politics and marketing, and
> more focus on technical issues instead. It also means that few people
> understand about the development process, or about ensuring quality.
> Successful OSS projects of any size seem to be the ones that stumble
> upon good processes more or less by chance.
>
A rather utopian view, unfortunately the IS departments of most companies
are cost centers whose main function in life isn't the advancement of some
programmers zen but supporting those who actually make the money for a
company. Pipe dreams aren't a path to financial enlightenment,
professionalism is.
> -kzm
> --
> If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:37:29 GMT
"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
>
> > "Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I cannot guarantee that the writer of a given module in Linux
will
> > be
> > > > > > available or even willing to assist. My experience in this has
> > > > indicated
> > > > > > that they won't help.
> > > > >
> > > > > And why should they, you've never paid them a penny. So fix it
> > yourself or
> > > > > employ someone to fix it for you. Only closed source requires you
to
> > go
> > > > cap in
> > > > > hand to vendor and hope they fix it. Open source empowers you to
> > choose
> > > > your own
> > > > > maintenance people (including yourself if you're up to it).
> > > >
> > > > I don't have to employ an expensive programmer just to fix drivers
now,
> > do
> > > > I?
> > >
> > > You want them fixed for free? Not a communist are you?
> > >
> > > It always takes expensive programmers to fix drivers, who ever they
come
> > from.
> > > Microsoft (et al) charge you before you open the packaging, so it
feels
> > like
> > > you're getting fixes for free. They're not free, you just paid for
them in
> > > advance.
> > >
> >
> > And I get them when needed. Not so with Freeware.
>
> Rubbish, you get them when (and *if*) the vendor decides you can have
them. The
> vendor can choose to stop support at any time and there is nothing you can
do
> about it (Can you say "NT on Alpha"?).
>
Can you spell COMPAQ. They are the decision makers in the Alpha market.
> And "Freeware" != "Open Source". Many open source products are available
for
> sale.
>
So now the cost goes up for open sores.
> > Additionally, the little
> > extra I pay for quality software wouldn't be a months pay for a staff
> > programmer.
>
> s/quality/closed/g. Paying for your software doesn't make it closed, and
closing
> the software doesn't make it quality.
>
I don't always buy closed software, I do buy professionally developed
software not someones hobby.
> So pool your costs with others and buy a support contract.
> - You can shop around for them, not so with closed software.
> - The vendor can't pull the plug on you, not so with closed software.
> - You might already have the skills or the staff to support it yourself,
not so
> with closed software.
>
>
> > And my stuff gets fixed if it should be broken.
>
> Maybe. If the vendor decides to fix it. They don't want to fix too many
things,
> after all they've got a new release to sell you, coming soon. (Can you say
> "Windows 98"?)
>
What is your point, Win95 was updated at least twice AFTER the release of
Win98?
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Kulkis digest, volume 2451894
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:40:46 GMT
"Matthew Soltysiak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> And why are people bothering with this fool?? Ignore him. He's an idiot.
>
You could at least trim his idiotic signature from your replies to him.
------------------------------
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