Linux-Advocacy Digest #835, Volume #27 Fri, 21 Jul 00 00:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: I just don't buy it
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Lee Hollaar)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Lee Hollaar)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Oh, this is a good one (abraxas)
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (abraxas)
Re: Linux is just plain awful ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Some Windows weirdnesses... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I tried to install both W2K and Linux last night... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: I just don't buy it (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I just don't buy it
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:58:33 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:20:22 -0700
> <8l67ju$k1e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:40:42 -0700, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> >Would you want to maintain your financial records on the server?
> >>
> >> Encryption.
> >
> >Who supplies the encryption software
>
> Interesting question, that. Ideally, one could use PGP.
>
> > Where is the key stored?
>
> The public key can be stored wherever you want; broadcast
> it from the rooftops.
>
> You are in charge of the private key. (Don't lose it! :-) )
>
> >Could the data ever hit the server without encryption?
>
> That's up to you; presumably, you encrypt it using your public
> key on your local box and ship it over. Once encrypted, only
> you can decrypt it using your private key.
>
> >Could you be sure that data is secure?
>
> With a rock-solid double-key encryption system, it's not much of
> an issue; without the private key, it's so much hash.
>
> At least, as far as the state of the art of technology goes;
> however, there are interesting developments in the state
> of quantum computing -- although one might say that's in its
> "embryony", not even its infancy -- which would allow for the
> simultaneous testing of a whole mess of keys at once (a photon
> is a boson, after all).
>
> Just when you thought it was safe to enter that credit card
> number into the web browser... :-)
>
When your are using a diskless "thin client", and all your software is
supplied over the net from the servers public key cryptography is no
protection. That is the vision of .NET.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Hollaar)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:04:55 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Free clue, Max: Lee *teaches* this stuff. In a law school. For money. His
>students become lawyers. Who litigate and help decide this stuff.
Just for the sake of accuracy, the intellectual property class I
normally teach is in our School of Computing, part of our Engineering
College. But I have guest-lectured on copyright and other topics
at some major law schools.
But law students do take my course. And if he paid the tuition, so
could T. Max.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:59:30 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >Nah.. conservatism vs liberalism are orthogonal to left-right issues.
>
> You're kidding, right? I could consider that maybe they were not
> synonymous. But 'orthogonal'? That's hogwash.
>
> As I stated, left-right are not definitive, they are descriptive. But I
> don't understand why you wouldn't consider them at least related to
> con/lib, as the common idiom generally indicates:
>
> Left = Liberal = Democrat
> Right = Conservative = Republican
>
Liberalism merely means pro-change.
conservatism merely means pro-restraint
in and of themselves, the term liberal means very little, as it
doesn't define which DIRECTION the change is moving into.
In the vernacular, the Leftist-socialists grabbed the term "liberal"
because it shares the same root as "liberty"
But, Jefferson was considered a "liberal" and those who call themselves
liberal today trash his ideals every chance they can get.
Now...there are several varieties of liberal
right-wing (moving towards the fascist form of socialism, like
Japan has had for the last 70 years, and what
was installed by Hitler and Mussolini in the 30's)
left-wing (communist socialism)
libertarian (no socialism, with minimal government interference in
life)
statist (anti-liberty. promoting monarchy/oligarchy/police state
etc.)
theocrist (religious state, like Afghanistan or Iran)
> Certainly not a deterministic correlation. But non-orthogonal? Please
> explain.
The vernacular usage of these terms is quite sloppy.
Think of economic freedom/rights on one axis
put religious/intellectual freedom/rights on another axis
put physical self-defence/due process/legal_defence/evidence/trial/jury
rights on a 3rd axis
There might be more than 3 axes, but these are all I can think of
right now.
plot your set of beliefs along x/y/z and whatever region of this
3-space determines what end-form of government YOU want.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> Manager of Research & Educational Services
> Managed Services
> ELTRAX Technology Services Group
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
> my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
> applicable licensing agreement]-
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Hollaar)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:08:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>I find it mind-boggling that you're manager of anything for anyone at all,
>and can only hope for the sake of the stocholders of your company that your
>boss and coworkers thoroughly ignore you in order to minimize the damage
>your total lack of ability to understand the real world would otherwise
>present.
Not just a manager -- "Manager of Research & Educational Services"!
Wouldn't you like to hire him to research or teach you something?
I'm sure that if he taught a copyright course, it would certainly be
unique ...
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:01:05 -0400
Chad Irby wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Chad Irby wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > When was the last time you heard about the Japanese government
> > > > worrying about what people do in their bedrooms or what their
> > > > citizens can see or not on the internet?
> > >
> > > Continually.
> > >
> > > Read up on some of the Japanese censorship that hoes on, and even though
> > > they're more free in some respects than Americans, they have their own
> > > little government sillinesses.
> >
> > And what does that have to do with Shintoism?
>
> Not a damned thing. What does your little question above have to do
> with the Japanese government and censorship?
So, you admit that "right wing" government has nothing to do with
religious goals.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Oh, this is a good one
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:11:47 GMT
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, abraxas
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on 19 Jul 2000 22:32:16 GMT
> <8l5a9g$2uu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>http://www.msnbc.com/msn/432208.asp
>>
>>This may very well be the funniest one yet...Dresden? Any
>>comments?
>
> Hm...404'd on me. Mind you, I'm using Lynx.
>
Ah, it seems to be gone now. Go figure.
Heres more:
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2285401.html
And more:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS00-043.asp
The problem appears to be the possible induction into memory of malicious
code and its subsequent execution...In other words, all you need to do is
READ your mail. Opening attachments is not nessesary.
Apparantly W2K SP1 fixes this, though that has not been confirmed.
What was that about a bugless operating system, dresden?
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:12:34 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Stephen S. Edwards II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> : Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:ckId5.36583$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> : >
> : > But Perry - in what way? I mean you say it but don't suppor it. How is VB
> : so
> : > "weak"? Assuming both a C programmer and VB programmer can reach into 3rd
> : > party add-ins to complete his/her toolbox - where is VB's primary weakness
> : > that makes it *unable* (not just difficult, you suggest unable) to create
> : > complex applications. I don't see it.
>
> : Care to write a OS kernel in BASIC?
>
> Care to write an OS kernel is perl? What's you point?
> Why are you harping on this nonsense?
Ah. VB=perl.
Well that certianly explains alot.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is just plain awful
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:05:31 -0400
Patrik Arvhult wrote:
>
> Sometimes a few GOTO statements is the most efficient/optimal coding in C
> code. But too many of them isn't nice to read.
On rare occasions, yes.
abort();
exit();
and break;
are usually superior.
>
> Regards / Patrik J. C. C. Arvhult
>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Bob Hauck wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:51:46 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >A friend of mine showed me a kernal-code sample sent to a friend of
> > > >his (by a microsoft programmer)
> > >
> > > >Freaking GOTO statements all over the place.... in C CODE!!!!!
> > >
> > > I wouldn't be throwing stones...
> > >
> > > [hauck@lab linux]$ cd /usr/src/linux
> > > [hauck@lab linux]$ find -name \*\.c -exec grep -w goto {} \;|wc
> > > 6781 15167 123774
> >
> >
> > What I was show was pure spaghetti code that would confuse even the
> > most grizzled lifelong BASIC-droid...
> >
> > I sincerely doubt that the linux source is full of spaghetti code.
> > bailouts, yeah...but spaghetti, no.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> > I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> > premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> > you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> > you are lazy, stupid people"
> >
> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
> >
> > B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
> >
> > C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> > sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> > that she doesn't like.
> >
> > D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
> >
> > E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> > ...despite (D) above.
> >
> > F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> > response until their behavior improves.
> >
> > G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> > adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
> >
> > H: Knackos...you're a retard.
> >
> >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:07:37 -0400
Tim Kelley wrote:
>
> Russell Wallace wrote:
> >
> > Tim Kelley wrote:
> > >
> > > Russell Wallace wrote:
> > >
> > > > FAT is one of the very few pieces of software I've ever come across that
> > > > I really trust. I've seen any number of DOS/3.1/W95/W98 machines
> > > > hard-shutdown due to power failures, crashes or whatever in the 12 years
> > > > I've been working with them, and FAT doesn't mind in the least - all
> > > > that happens is any uncommitted data was lost (obviously) and
> > > > CHKDSK/Scandisk sometimes finds some lost sectors (that wouldn't have
> > > > done any harm except waste a little bit of disk space).
> > >
> > > The problem with FAt wasn't that it was "unreliable" but that it
> > > has no features to be unreliable. It has too many stupid
> > > limitations, but it's still good for formatting floppies or
> > > something.
> >
> > Happened again this evening. Power went out, two Windows 95 machines on
> > (and actively doing stuff) at the time. When it came back, both
> > machines came up again no problems, no lost data - as I was sure they
> > would. I knew I didn't need to worry. I'd sacrifice a lot of features
> > for that if it came down to it.
> >
> > That said, if one can have both reliability and features, so much the
> > better. What do you see FAT as missing? (Aside from the cluster
> > allocation inefficiency.)
>
> The problem is if you start adding features it will be unreliable
> ... that's the point. There is very little for FAT to keep track
> of so it does not have much data to corrupt.
Kind of like a Go-Kart.....
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: I tried to install both W2K and Linux last night...
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:29:42 GMT
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:41:31 -0400, Jeff Szarka wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:42:41 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
>wrote:
>
>>We've heard more than enough complaints from you confirming our
>>opinion that, when installing Linux, from the beginning, your
>>intention is to have the installation fail miserably on the way in
>>order to be able to post flames here.
>How exactly do you explain the fact that I have a mostly working Linux
>system right now?
I don't know. Maybe you got your kids to install it for you.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:21:52 -0400
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snip>
>
> GEZUZ Aaron - you CLAIM to be a unix engineer and claim to have all this
> computer experience... have you NEVER posted to newsgroups before? You
> quoted back near 20 k of text to make a few lines of reply and THEN threw
> another 5 K of quoted text after that without any reply or reason AND THEN
> threw in your ridiculously long .sig - read something about netiqute eh?
>
> >
> > > Again: crap. ANY OS installed on hundreds of PCs will have a huge
> support
> > > staff. NT is not more expensive to support than another OS. Every study
> I've
> >
> > Typical support staff for TENS OF THOUSANDS of Unix workstations at GM
> > consists of
> >
> > 2-3 techs on site (for hardware problems, like swapping keyboards, etc.)
> > 20-man central help-desk team (10 first level, 10 2nd level)
> > 5-man desktop organization team
> > 10-man server team.
> > + management overhead.
> >
> > That's it... a total of 40 people plus 2-3/site (each site having
> > several
> > hundred workstations..let's say 1%)
> >
> > For 40,000 workstations, that comes to approximately 400 to 600 onsite
> > techs, plus 40 O/S support people.
> >
> > In other words, the O/S support people are outnumbered by the hardware
> > techs by a ratio somewhere between 10:1 and 15:1.
>
> Oh yes, actually I have heard these numbers before. Now,... go to work at
> GM, NOT as a tech or "Computer support guy" - as a computer user. AHhhh
> different feeling isn't it. That, we can NEVER get a computer guy feeling.
> That we have THE worst tech support in the industry feeling. That, "thank
> god we can telnet into otherwise hung boxes or we'd never have enough
Yes, LOTS of LoseDOS boxes get hung.....
Typical "hung unix workstation" rate is around 2 / day, for a deployment
of 20,000 +/- 10,000 Unix workstations.
AT WORST, that's 2 hung workstations/day for 10,000 workstations.
> stations to go around." And that, I wish we were running Windows 2000
> thought...
Yeah, LoseDOS 95 and LoseDOS 98, and LoseDOW Neutered Technology all
suck.
>
> I've been on-site at GM, often, usually with another client who is doing
> interfacing. We forever have to work through layers and layers of management
What does GM's bureuacracy have to do with Unix?
> before we finally get to the right tech guy who is SO severely overworked
> and constantly ready to leave that we never know who we'll start a project
> with and who'll we'll end it with.
Yup...the life of a Microsoft tech totally sucks.
When GM and EDS rearranged the software and O/S support for the
workstations, the Unix hardware techs spend a LOT of time doing
things like...reading novels, studying for admin certification,
etc.
>
> I think that using GM as you model is a poor choice.
If I was talking about the WINDOWS at GM, then yes.
However, I'm talking about the UNIX deployment at GM, which is an
entirely different story.
>
> >
> > You could never achieve such numbers with Windows even if all 40,000
> > units were on the same site.
> >
>
> Nope - you are right - I would never even try. You see, I CARE about
> end-users and their needs. I CARE about my PC Techs and support personal. I
> don't like seeing them driven harder than Royal Oak Postal Employees.
Actually, when I was one of those mere 20 people doing the O/S and
application support for ALL of GM, I can tell you that it wasn't
anywhere close to stressful.
Boring is more like it.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: I just don't buy it
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:35:21 GMT
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:15:17 -0400, Jeff Szarka wrote:
>On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:15:24 -0500, WesTralia
>>It will be 2-3 years before .NET steps out from the vapor. By
>>that time most chip manufacturers will have chips on the market
>>which translate Java byte-code.
>
>We'll see I guess. Java's whole life seems to be summed up by "wait
>till next year"
Java is widely used in industry *today*. One of the most marketable
skills in the computing job market is java programming. If you really
think java is going to fail, I dare you to short Sun Microsystems' stock.
Unless you believe that they will be wildly succesful, they are way
overvalued.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:37:28 GMT
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:05:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:ckId5.36583$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> But Perry - in what way? I mean you say it but don't suppor it. How is VB
>so
>> "weak"? Assuming both a C programmer and VB programmer can reach into 3rd
>> party add-ins to complete his/her toolbox - where is VB's primary weakness
>> that makes it *unable* (not just difficult, you suggest unable) to create
>> complex applications. I don't see it.
>
>Care to write a OS kernel in BASIC?
I don't think anyone is trying to argue that it's a systems programming
language -- they were talking about complex *APPLICATIONS* after all.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:41:23 GMT
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:02:10 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:LlId5.36590$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> Can you be more specific? In what way is VB failing on a large scale that
>is
>> not revealed to us "little scale" programmers who are having no trouble
>> using VB for most anything.
>
>Can you write a an operating system kernel in BASIC. Say a replacement for
>the Linux kernel?
This is a poor test of scalability. It is more a test of fitness for
systems and low level programming. And no one is trying to argue that
Basic is good for this.
But "good for writing kernels" is not the same as "good for writing
large applications". For example, object oriented design is useful
for writing complex applications but it seems that a lot of low level
programming is done in a procedural style ( largely because the CPU
itself is not "object oriented". )
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:34:48 -0400
Loren Petrich wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On 20 Jul 2000 08:29:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>
> >>>You wanna see poverty, and HUGE disparities between the rich and the
> >>>poor? Then go to a communist country and look around.
>
> >> Thus making it an inegalitarian's dream world.
> >No, it's nearly egalitarian's dreamworld -- almost all starve equally.
>
> ROTFL. That's not egaltarianism but just the opposite.
eqality = EQUALITY you doofus.
>
> And how are Larry Ellison's dumpster-diving lessons coming along?
> We all know how you are one of his favorite students, O MK.
>
> --
> Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] And a fast train
> My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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