Linux-Advocacy Digest #949, Volume #28 Wed, 6 Sep 00 08:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Computer and memory ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Christophe Ochal")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:20:41 +0200
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
N1it5.28268$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:Z26t5.782$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > It's not us European's fault that M$ *NEEDS* such big patches & SP's.
> > BTW, are we being arrogant today?
>
> Man, I can't believe the gul of you guys to sit here and call me arrogant
> when you guys make posts like:
>
> "Chad, there are other people in the world besides americans."
>
> " Thank god for that! Can you imagine what a mess the world would be
> otherwise?"
That little gem is my handywork, live with it
> What would it be like? We wouldn't have any whiny lazy bitching talking
Look at the crime rate in the States, then look at Europe
'nuf said
> heads that seem to think _I'M_ the arrogant one. That's just for
starters...
The thruth hurts, doesn't it?
> The world would be far more productive and technologically advanced for
> second. Shall I go on?
Oh, lke the software industry? More innovation a la M$?
> Now, to address your ignorant "It's not us European's fault..." remark.
>
> I never said it was Europe's fault. You guys were the ones bitching
> about it. There's no reason to bitch. None. Downloading RedHat Linux
> is a 1+ GB adventure. No one's complaining about that. How is MS
> different in this regards? Everyone has hefty downloads now, MS
> is not alone. Save your biased, ignorant remarks for some other
> clueless Eurotrash twit.
Eurotrash? Geez, can't you get more original with your insults? Only someone
with the IQ of a blowfish would use sush words...
You seem to assume everyone downloads Linux aswell, well, big shock, you can
get Linux on a CD for 2$, while downloading would take how long? Compare
these 2$ against the price M$ asks for a CD with IE5 or SP6?
Do you see where i'm going to here? Or shall i draw a picture?
> If you don't like having metered Internet access, don't blame MS
> for big downloads, blame your lousy government for not getting on
The government has *NOTHING* to do with it, it's an *economical* problem
> the ball and helping your country catch up with the rest of the
> world. Yes, you are far behind everyone else. Stop bitching and
> do something about it.
And here are you proving the fact that you consider yourself better then
Europe (aka being arrogant again)
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:25:13 +0200
Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Me: BTW, because Windows had shipped with a componentized IE for
> >> quite a while before the case went to court, MS is *ENTIRELY*
> >> correct when they say that removing it is impossible without
> >> damaging the product.
> >
> >Then how come some guy pulled it off? (i don't remember his name, i read
it
> >in login (french mag))
> >
>
> He didn't. He may have invented a scheme for modifying Windows so that
> no part of IE remained installed, but the result was a damaged
> product.
It depends, he proved it *can* be done, M$ claimed it was impossible => they
lied
Wether or not this means the windows installation of that guy was therefor
"damaged" is not relevant
> >> You: That's bullshit. Its software. Nothing can "damage" it.
> >
> >Define demage
> >
>
> For a product like Windows (an application platform), any modification
> that results in a platform that runs fewer applications than the
> standard version represents damage. Applications often check the
> platform's revision level in order to discover the platform's
> capabilities. If the platform identifies its revision level as one
> that supports a given capability, and it doesn't actually support that
> capability, then it's damaged.
I find the word "damage" quite confusing for this, but i see what you mean,
maybe "altered" would be more appropriate?
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:28:52 +0200
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
kPat5.50418$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:836t5.794$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Also, consider this: currently, < 1% of our target demographic uses
> > Linux..
> > > < 4% uses Mac. The other 95 or so % use Windows.
> >
> > Nah, 0.5% uses Amiga ^_^
>
> Not according to my stats, they don't....
So it's even less, bite me :)
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:30:03 +0200
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
8p43fg$prs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8p3v1i$1m1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:kPat5.50418$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:836t5.794$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Also, consider this: currently, < 1% of our target demographic
uses
> > > > Linux..
> > > > > < 4% uses Mac. The other 95 or so % use Windows.
> > > >
> > > > Nah, 0.5% uses Amiga ^_^
> > >
> > > Not according to my stats, they don't....
> >
> > Would you care to provide us with your statistics? What is the
population
> > and the bias factors? Is the raw data available?
>
> No, the raw data isn't available. I provided you with the statistics
above.
> And it's based on number of web hits from each OS.
Not valid, not everyone surfes the web, and Amiga's can pretend to be
Windows computers to access sites that otherwise jerk arround for not using
IE
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:31:48 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
8p3s81$3jh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Christophe Ochal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:536t5.791$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
> > 8oref8$fgr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > It make no different if the OS is written under the authority of the
> > > manufacturer of the computer of if the manufacturer aquires it from
else
> > > were, the customer pays for it if they use it or not. In the case of
> the
> > > example computer system of the if it did not come with the OS the
price
> to
> > > the customer would have been $1,130.00 instead of $1,150.00 for the
> > machine.
> >
> > Has anyone actually tried to return his windows licence that came with a
> > computer?
>
> A client of mine did try that about 10 years ago, that was the Dos
licenses
> that came with several computers they purchased. From the get go those
> machines were purchaed to run NetWare but yet they came with Dos bundled
in
> with the computers. So here they had six unneeded licenses for Dos that
> could only be used on that particular model.
>
> The client was determined on principal to take Microsoft up on the then
> publicized offer to refund for unwanted and unused Dos licenses just as
the
> current offer is for Windows. It became a big run around between
Microsoft,
> the OEM, and the dealer. Finally when the cost to pursue the situation
> further appeared to exceed the vaule of the refund should it ever have
been
> achieved, the client abandoned the attempt. The cost of the licenses and
> the cost of the persuit of the refund amounted to a total of just over
> $800.00 lost not counting time and salary, and consulting fees expended on
> the issue.
Typical... Let's burn Redmond :)
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:36:29 +0200
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<cut>
> I guess I'll take a break for a while; everybody's sick of me already,
> I'm sure. If you need me, I'll be in alt.destroy.microsoft.
That exists?!? LoL
BTW, i didn't read you're whole post, i have no big interrests in law, i
know enough about it to stay out of jail, that's enough :)
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:43:45 +0200
Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Christophe Ochal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >snip<
> :> Applications that run on Linux do not need to be GPLed, and may aren't
> :> (Netscape, Oracle, Sybase, etc, etc).
> :>
> :> However, a GPLed DVD player is impossible for all practical intentions
as
> :> the holders of the DVD encoding algorithm patent (not copyright, AFAIK)
> :> do not want the algorithm public in any way, shape, or form. See
> :> www.2600.org for details of what happends to you if you attempt to make
> :> said algorithm public...
> :
> : I know, but even if you make a close source player, you *can not* link
to
> : any GPL software, as this would mean that your program will be GPLed
> : aswell
>
> What GPL software are you thinking of? Most libraries (what one
> would "link" to) are LGPL, not GPL (there are brain dead exceptions
> such as readline, but they are few and far between). LGPL code has
> no problem linking with non-GPL code.
Yes, LGPL allows linking with it (thank god ^_^) but i was just
demonstrating some of the problems one might (will) incounter on linux
> : Also, i find it a violation of human rights that they wish to keep
> : something out of the public, expecially since there are laws that say
that
> : reverse engeneering is allowed in order to be compatable with said
> : program/data (in Belgium anyway)
>
> The issues are mostly in the US, which has exceptionally brain
> damaged ideas on computer law and IP. The US allows companies to
ROFL
> *patent* fundamental laws of nature and mathematics (algorithms),
And you guys accept that??
> which is really all the DVD encoding methods are and thus why the
> MPAA can make such a big stink about it.
IOW, if *I* were to make a player based on DeCSS they can't do shit about
it? Or can they?
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:46:51 +0200
Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Christophe Ochal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : D'Arcy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >snip<
> :> > What moral ones? The 11th commandmand : "Thee shall squash small
OS's"?
> :>
> :> So the DVD license holder is attempting to "squash small OS's"... and
why
> :> exactly is the DVD license holder trying to do that?
> :
> : How much do they ask for a licence?
>
> It's not a question of cost, it's a question of risk. The MPAA uses
> DVD encoding to artificially restrict access as they see fit. No
> matter what you might offer to license their encoding, if your use
> or intentions might in any way jeopardize their enforcement of such
> restrictions, you will not get a license.
So if i were to call them up for a licence for a closed source player for
linux they haven't got a reason to refuse, if they do object it means they
have *other* interrests in blocking linux
Hmm...
> After all, the *ONLY* reason the encryption exists at all on DVD is
> expressly to enable enforcement of restrictions the MPAA wants.
Wich, on video, are more difficult to maintain/use...
> The MPAA isn't trying to "squash small OSs", that is simply a side
> effect of their real goals.
Typicall
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:48:40 +0200
D'Arcy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
y3ft5.9646$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:7F8t5.825$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > D'Arcy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
>
> > > So the DVD license holder is attempting to "squash small OS's"...
> > > and why exactly is the DVD license holder trying to do that?
>
> > How much do they ask for a licence?
>
> The cost isn't there to stop DVD software from appearing
> on "alternative" OS'. A side effect of the cost is that it stops
> people from writing DVD software for small platforms.
>
> You are the one claiming that the DVD license holder is attempting
> to "squash small OS's" - what proof do you have of that? Licensing
> fees themselves don't show such a desire. Why exactly do
> you think that they want to "squash" any OS anyways?
It's just an impression i was getting from all the news i read about it, i
have no proof, other then maybe an artificialy high licence fee
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:51:19 +0200
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
ZTat5.50421$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:c36t5.803$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Now, what did MPAA do with DeCSS? they attack it as if it were made by
> > satan, and claim it's made for piracy (btw, they use other tricks for
> this,
> > plus, nothing stops you from duplicating a DVD-rom)
>
> Erm... apart from a $140,000 setup fee? Duping DVDs is expensive.
So was duplicating CD's
> Now, what DeCSS lets you do is extract the MPEG data streams, which you
can
> then run through a converter, and split over two CDs which will play in
most
> DVD players. You can then dupe them to kingdom come.
Or you can write a player that *plays* the Mpeg stream
BTW, current software used for duping them just grabs the outputstream of an
existing player
> Unfortunately, that's a big whopping side effect of DeCSS. *shrugs*. DVD
> piracy is the latest cracker fad -- there's whole sites (and whole tools)
> being written just for this purpose. Kind of cool in some ways -- but I
can
> see the MPAA's point.
So can i, but that doesn't *prove* it was written for piracy
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:54:23 +0200
Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
4Yat5.50423$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:d36t5.806$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Nope, not necessarily. They're facts as seen by a Judge who spent most
> of
> > > his time sleeping in court. And ignoring a great deal of MS evidence.
> >
> > Oh, right, like the forged video they had about IE? Or their statement
> that
> > it IE couldn't be removed from win98?
> > (btw, it *CAN* be done, as proven by a guy, don't remember who tho)
>
> No, it can't be done. Not without destroying key functionality. Do a
search
> for 98Lite -- you'll see a list of things that DON'T WORK after you do it.
Can you tell a few of apps that won't work? Just name 5 apps that *are not*
by M$
> Also, the judge actually wanted them to remove the icon -- he just didn't
> understand when he asked them to remove everything. Which is why MS
appeared
> arrogant in court.
then *why* didn't they remove the icon?
> > give me one piece of "evidence" that M$ produced that was valid
>
> Everything entered into the record as evidence (you can see a whole slew
of
> these things at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass) except the video
> footage, as it was edited to produce in a smaller amount of time.
I want an URL that points to a company or anything that's not directly
related to this case, M$ can put whatever they want on their website
> > You're an M$ lover, and an idiot to boot
>
> No; I just try to give everyone the courtesy of a fair shake of the stick.
Meaning?
Amon_Re
------------------------------
From: "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:55:35 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
8p47nl$o9b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<cut>
> Then when someone on the Judge's staff proved the lie, the T.V. news
> stations reported it and Microsoft's refutation as well, they also brought
> in "independent experts" providing reports supporting Microsoft position.
> The local NBC affiliate was the worst in this reguard, the arranged a
> demonstration in the news studio televised as part of the news to prove
that
> Windows 95 will fail to be functional without IE.
And the law allows this?
Amon_Re
------------------------------
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